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Original poster

Defining sex in the Scottish Census

144 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 10:46

www.scottishparliament.tv/channel/committee-room-2

Bloke on just now arguing that they are not allowed to ask for biological sex, and should be asking for lived for sex Shock

This is the committee that Rosa Freedman was giving evidence to.

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Gileswithachainsaw · 07/12/2018 00:30

Very interesting.

Nice take downs in the second half.

One question no one asked though..

Vic and tim were saying that there needed to be a third option of non binary in the mandatory sex question. And the trans status question would allow the info to.he interpreted correctly.

Now if someone.ticked female and ticked yes to having a trans status you could work.outntheynwere born.male.

But if someone ticked non binary. Then ticked yes to trans status. That won't reveal what they really are.

So essentially there's a big chunk.of trans people for whom there woukd be no biological sex data at all

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 06/12/2018 23:53

This is the most relieved I have felt in years about this, after watching that session. I had all but lost hope in Scotland. But sense is prevailing, behind the noise of those driving this, people are absolutely aware of the issues.

That session left no doubt about what the solution was: sex as a binary, biological question; correct the mistake that was made 20 years ago saying sex could be self defined. Additional, optional, questions about gender identity so Vic can put their non-binary identity in there.

Thank fuck for that committee (except Ross Greer who just illustrated he doesn't have the skills or life experience to be on it)

I am a happy woman tonight.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 06/12/2018 20:38

Oh and the ref to the W&E submission!

Joan is awesome!

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 06/12/2018 20:37

I'm fan-girling over Joan asking the Philip Bunce question!

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 19:10

👍

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Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 06/12/2018 19:03

Follow up from Forwomen.Scot
forwomen.scot/blog/

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 18:54

Yes. The first people to be consulted with prepared the MSPs well I think. And Rosa was much more convincing than Hopkins about what the law meant by sex.

I'm really hope that because they moved so far outside the scope of the meeting that the MSPs are really getting to grips with the issue, and see that it is well beyond the issue of a census question.

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Sarahconnor1 · 06/12/2018 18:52

I've just watched this, Rosa was excellent. I got the impression that the MSPs (with one or two exceptions) get it, had done their research and have wider concerns. The second panel with Vic was less than convincing in parts.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/12/2018 18:40

Everyone else came across as finding the second panel unconvincing and displayed a good grasp of the issues though!

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 18:17

Ross! Not Rosa Blush

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Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 18:17

Although Rosa Greer is an annoying wee shit...

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Theinconstantgardener · 06/12/2018 18:10

Halfway through this on youtube.
Both women are inspirational. It gives me hope. Particularly with all the shit Rosa is going through.

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 17:34

I agree, the MSPs are asking really searching questions - I reckon at least some of them are GC, and the fact that so much is being covered means that hopefully the discussion will be fed back in other areas.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/12/2018 17:27

At 1:41. someone has asked what it means to live as a particular sex and there isn't a coherent answer. The answer starts off by decrying it's to do with sex stereotypes, touches on pronouns and clothes, agrees that male or female brains aren't the case and ends on gender dysphoria. Which doesn't actually explain what living as the opposite sex means. This really is amazing to watch and I'm also feeling buoyed by this.

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 17:18

Watching further... The committee is going way way off topic - girl guides and prisons being looked at in detail. Someone has been doing their research...

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Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 16:45

I'm only 18 minutes in, but the scotgov committee seem to be asking some really good questions, and getting some really good answers. It's interesting the way the MSPs are not focused on the bill, but are really trying to understand sex / gender.

I'm feeling more hopeful than I have for a long time.

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stumbledin · 06/12/2018 16:33

A thread about this has already been started some time ago. Seems a shame to splinter info like this.

As it also applies to England and Wales.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3441785-Census-in-Scotland-proposes-that-sex-and-gender-identity-are-the-same-thing?noti=1

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/12/2018 16:31

I'm halfway through and Rosa and Susan are brilliant.

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 16:28

I'm just watching now, Rosa and the other woman are very very good.

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Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 16:21

Thanks Alice I was hoping the full thing would be put up somewhere

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Katvonblackdeath · 06/12/2018 15:47

Oh please god let there be sense on this

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 06/12/2018 15:40

Link to the session on Scot Parl channel

RunningWild12 · 06/12/2018 14:43

Thanks so much ItsAllGoingToBeFine
I'm at work here in Edinburgh - thanks for your running commentary! So sorry to miss Rosa (are you still here? In a pub somewhere?). And her tweet re: MSPs navigating Bills in the light of self id possibly not becoming law is heartening.
I was planning another email to all my representatives over the weekend - this has been another boost to keep on at them!

terryleather · 06/12/2018 11:42

Your take makes me feel slightly better ItsAll so I'll skip the gin until later!

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/12/2018 11:37

Actually I got the impression from watching that the MSPs (at least some of them) were deeply cycnical about the whole thing, but had to give a fair and balance hearing. It will be interesting to see the tone of the report when it comes out.

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