Debbie Hayton and Posie Parker on Matthew Wright, TalkRadio between 1pm and 2pm **Thread title edited by MNHQ**

After Ellen article calling out Pink News and Nick Duffy's article:

'Male-Run ‘Pink News’ at Odds with the Lesbian Community…Again' by Julia Diana Robertson
(extract)

"PinkNews, a male-run publication, has a history of coming under fire with the lesbian community. Yesterday, it happened yet again…

Lesbians are the most silenced within the alphabet and within the mainstream media. We’re pathologically misrepresented.

The mainstream media (including the ‘LGBT’ mainstream) are male-dominated (like everything else)… Even lesbian organizations and media are controlled by non-lesbians and male-money—Parent companies or advertisers that ultimately control what we can and cannot say. Mainstream media is like the creepy uncle who shows up at your lesbian dinner party, uninvited, holding a bouquet of d*cks. PinkNews has been called out on social media, time and time again, for what lesbian readers view as biased reporting, anti-lesbian sentiment and misogynistic viewpoints." (continues)

Yesterday, PinkNews ran an article on Irish writer/director Graham Linehan. In the article, PinkNews painted Linehan (a vocal ally to the lesbian community) in a distorted light, while quoting Dr Adrian Harrop (someone who lesbians consider extremely anti-lesbian) as though he’s an ally. This added to an already long list of complaints the lesbian community has about PinkNews—So many complaints in fact, lesbians quite often refer to the publication as “Penis News”.

When PinkNews writes on lesbian topics and issues, it’s often from a male point of view. In January of 2018, PinkNews added a woman to their staff. When asked online if she was a lesbian (multiple times, by lesbians in the community), there was no response.

PinkNews has also been routinely called out for sanctioning anti-lesbian slurs. The use of an anti-lesbian slur serves to endorse abuse against lesbians (including threats of violence against lesbians for innate same-sex attraction). PinkNews wrote an article defending the use of a slur that’s currently used against lesbians for being… well… lesbians. And in that same article admitted the slur was… well… a slur." (continues)

www.afterellen.com/general-news/567505-male-run-pink-news-at-odds-with-lesbian-community

Same thing happened last week re Stonewall:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3444196-Stonewall-What-have-we-been-up-to-in-the-last-year-Their-year-impact-report

It will be being spun elsewhere though.

god. tweet after tweet pointing out what total numpties pink news are

and about 3 or 4 dedicated nutters posters constantly playing the 'you're denying my existence' card

we really are in the majority you know

the extremists are just so, well extreme, and noisy and violent that sometimes it's hard to see

worth reading twitter responses to Pink News and Nick Duffy's article:
twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1072585577386655745

Its a common formula in this sort of PN article.

Usually they have a couple more quotes, Fox & Owl often oblige.

The headlines seem to be absorbed as truths regardless
eg "women at 'we need to talk' meeting in Westminster think all people who are transgender are parasites' etc

Nick Duffy's articles are consistant.

is it just my confirmation bias?

that article reads to me like this:

Graham Linehan expresses reasonable concerns
Unreasonable trans extremists lose their shit
Pink news is colluding in homophobia

Did Nick mean it to put that message across?

Isn’t wasting police time an offence?

At least it’s plain what calling the police is all about.

Make a bogus complaint so they have to investigate and then you can reference the investigation every time you refer to the person you complained about.

Doesn’t matter if the complaint was total bullshit.

Here's the 'nice young' Nick Duffy with a typical Pink News article:

'Father Ted writer Graham Linehan compares trans activism to Nazism'
Nick Duffy 11th December 2018, 3:08 PM

ather Ted and The IT Crowd writer Graham Linehan is under fire after likening transgender activists to Nazis.

The TV writer made the comments in an interview with internet radio show Derrick Jensen Resistance Radio.

Linehan, who has come under fire for his outspoken views on trans issues on Twitter, said that he would not stop talking about the issue.

Speaking on the radio show, Linehan: “People do get very nervous… it’s like putting your hand on a flamethrower. The opposition is so extreme and so frightening that eventually everyone is asking you to stop.

“My feeling is I can’t, because it’s too important. It’s too important to the women in my life and it’s too important to me.

“I’m now in a position where I can now answer the question honestly of, if you were around the time of something terrible happening like Nazism, would you be one of the people who said, ‘This is wrong,’ despite being opposed?

“I feel happy in myself that I’ve been one of the people saying up and saying, ‘No, this is wrong,’ despite everyone telling me not to do it.”

The writer continued: “When things are wrong, you should be allowed to point out that they’re wrong.

LGBT+ people on Twitter slammed Linehan over the interview, with one writing: “It sounds like you’re comparing trans people to nazis, and we both know that would be f**king absurd.”

Dr Adrian Harrop wrote: “Making a comparison between the actions or members of any group and those of the Nazi Party is, at the very least, a controversial tactic. But to make such comparisons in relation to a group of people who were themselves victims of Nazi genocide is simply indefensible and wrong.”

In a statement to PinkNews about his comments, Linehan said: “When a magazine purportedly for gay people, collaborates in homosexual erasure by indulging the straight fantasy that men can be lesbians, something has gone deeply wrong.

“As I said in the interview, I’m proud to be on the side of the many gay, trans and female people who are fighting against this latest onslaught by the patriarchy.”

Linehan was given a warning by police in October after a harassment complaint from a transgender activist.

The writer was warned to stop contacting transgender woman Stephanie Hayden, who he had deadnamed and referred to using male pronouns."

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/12/11/father-ted-graham-linehan-trans-nazis/

Glinner's 45 mins interview with Derrick Jensen is here:

I'm just catching up since breakfast time due to the O2 data breakdown all day ... and blimey!!

It had me in mind of the Julia Hartley Brewer 'don't call me cis' clip last week when the fella kept not hearing her say 'no' and kept ducking back and trying to get her to back down

I am here to say what I think and listen to others - including those who disagree with me. Hopefully to learn things as well

So important this ^^

I am here to say what I think and listen to others - including those who disagree with me. Hopefully to learn things as well

A quote to live by debbie

Back to passports- mine does say F. I consider it to be a descriptive marker rather than a prescriptive marker. My legal sex is determined by my birth certificate that does say M

It does say sex though (not gender / gender identity) and F refers to female.

You've always been very clear that humans can't change sex as well as being open about not having a GRC.

So I'm a bit confused what 'descriptive marker' means in the context of the passport.

Our BMD system in this country seems to rely heavily on people staying around the same place, registering marriage, and keeping the same name(except within conventions for marriage) and staying the same sex they were born as and being born to the parents that are their parents. There are lots of exceptions for small numbers of people. The small numbers are now becoming more the norm - not sure how this will pan out.

Back to passports- mine does say F. I consider it to be a descriptive marker rather than a prescriptive marker. My legal sex is determined by my birth certificate that does say M.

Am I right about 'right brained' sciency people regardless of sex/gender. Im not sure I would have much to say to our Lils, or Shon or whoever. Though as a mum of a 20 year old I would want to feed Lils and counsel Aimee. They seem lost.

It certainly did take a funny turn. It isn't and shouldn't be about me. I am not sure of Adam's motives but I am quite capable of looking after myself. I do not disappear from existence when someone says "you're a man, Hayton!" I am here to say what I think and listen to others - including those who disagree with me. Hopefully to learn things as well.

I will tell you one person who I have never seen berate women for "unkind" opinions or speaking their minds when it is not in lockstep with theirs: Debbie Hayton.

Let's hope Adam is taking some time to reflect.

This thread took a funny turn didn't it?

Just checked. That was "Adam nichol".

Adam weren't you the poster who called women "cis" on the Scottish AIBU thread, and claimed to be new to the debate?

Oh shit that sounds rude

Hopefully you know what i mean

Its an interesting thought mum

Not interesting in a good way

Sorry Adam. My posts were intended to reply to Debbie, who was one of a number of interesting women I met last week.

I found Debbie easy to talk to. I am a natural mathematician and usually find it easy to talk to right brained people - regardless of sex/gender. (DH in contrast is academic but not practical, despite his combined science GCSE, and struggles to talk to, say, builders.)

Debbie posted some interesting, and perhaps evolving, thoughts on her colleagues 'permission' to use their space. I have replied explaining how I saw my boundaries. I have no problem Debbie coming back challenging my contribution.

My contribution was made in good faith and I am disappointed that you have written it off as 'getting at Debbie' and part of some hive mind collective.

Writing off my contribution and those of others gets us nowhere. If I somehow overstepped a line I would accept Debbie telling me so. But I am not sure where you coming from. Am I simply wrong simply because you disagree with me? If so, why? I feel I deserve a voice, both for me and my diabled mother. And am cross at being shut down by people who feel they have more entitlement.

Mumfun Changing the sex marker in passports is a big deal, I agree. As you said earlier, it effectively makes self-ID international law, and that raises a HUGE range of questions.