Shocking bullying of gender critical law professor (Rosa Freedman)

ChloeHouston79
I read & shared your nuanced and considered thread.
Its important
Thank you for speaking up, I hope more of your colleagues will do the same & The University of Reading take harrassment and intimidation seriously.

And well done Chloe. brave move.

Cowardly statement from reading. They could have added in a line about the fact that they support freedom of academic speech and student protest while strongly condemning harassment and criminal acts.

don’t let the bastards grind you down, Rosa, you’re one brave lady. They’re terrified of you.

I hope more of the papers cover this. More light needs to be shone on these activist methods.

Chloe, well done on going public. you are brave. It's really good to see courageous academics standing with Rose Freedman.

Chloe...thanks.

Language is an issue, as unless wording is watertight, anything can be taken out of context. Perhaps time to thank the MN mods for policing us.

I hope your silent majority colleagues and students will offer the support you deserve and you don't suffer any repercussions.

I regret how I phrased this statement in my original tweet. I meant that Rosa's feminism and activism is not transexclusionary, i.e. that she is not a transexclusionary or transphobic person, if that makes sense. I of course recognise that Rosa supports the exclusion of non-biologically female people from some female-only spaces, and I agree with her on that.

That's not trans-exclusionary unless she (and you) are stating that transmen are not welcome in womens spaces . Women's only spaces exclude men (and transwomen), they include women (and transmen)

I thought guidelines were that you put alleged if there's an identified perpetrator so as to avoid lawsuits from that perpetrator. Rosa has not named anyone, she has said these events have happened. Saying alleged and claimed in this context doesn't avoid lawsuits, it casts doubt on whether she's telling the truth.

ChewyLouie

I've seen a number of influential TRAs refer to Penny Mordant as Minister for Equalities (sans women) & am inclined to believe them in this case.

Over the summer Victoria Atkins MP (Minister for Women) voiced concerns about the steep rise in children seeking medical interventions following the questioning their gender identity. The government has announced there will be an enquiry.

In recent Westminster debate, her comments were reported by James Kirkup in Spectator article 21/11/2018:

'This MP has summed up everything wrong with the transgender debate'
(extract)
For new readers, this debate really boils down to who gets to be a woman. How should the law deal with people who are born male and retain a male body who identify themselves as a woman? Should they be able to gain the rights, entitlements and legal status of a woman on the basis of that self-identification? The government has consulted on changing the law to make it easier to legally change gender; some people support that, some people don’t. More of that in a minute.

If you’re interested in this stuff, you can read the whole Commons thing here , but for me there are a couple of things that stand out.

First, Victoria Atkins, the minister for women and equalities at the Home Office is a good thing, and someone surely heading for more senior ministerial office in due course. Ministerial responses to Westminster Hall debates are often boilerplate bromides written by officials and recited unthinkingly by the minister concerned. Atkins’ contribution was a lot better than that, and strongly suggests a minister who has taken the time to think critically about the issues (and actors) in an area where critical thinking has been painfully lacking.

Again, I don’t endorse everything Atkins said (I think she’s a tiny bit blasé about how effectively the Equality Act 2010’s single-sex exemptions are being implemented in everyday practice) but her general approach and tone were the right: it’s a complicated, contentious issue where loud voices on the extremes have drowned out and sometimes silenced legitimate questions.

Here are two eminently reasonable Atkins quotes that should be utterly uncontroversial but which are, in this context, refreshingly bold:

‘People are sometimes almost too scared to talk about things, which is not right. We do not want a climate of fear in the debate. We want people to be able to express their views respectfully and in a caring and careful manner, so that we ensure that questions are flushed out and answered.’

And:

‘I get asked about this issue regularly, and we all share a sense of sadness about the fact that this important debate sometimes gets taken over by loud and sometimes aggressive campaigning by activists. I am sure they hold their beliefs very strongly, but they perhaps lose sight of the fact that we have to be able to talk about this issue in a reasoned, respectful and caring fashion. The vast majority of the public—and, I am sure, parliamentarians—are in the middle. We want to talk about this issue in a caring and careful way so society gets to a position in which we are all comfortable with the consequences of the changes to legislation and so on.’

(NB: she didn’t identify those ‘activists’, which strikes me as a deft bit of politics, since it allows everyone to conclude that she was talking about Other People and not them.)

And since I was earlier this year very angry that the Commons did not debate the case of the rapist Karen White, I should note that the minister addressed that case thus:

‘I want to be clear that the case of Karen White is appalling. There was a series of terrible failings that should never have happened. In the light of that, my ministerial colleagues at the Ministry of Justice are looking again at the decision-making systems that apply to the management of transgender prisoners, as well as how they were applied in that case.’

Which strikes me as going a little further than the Ministry of Justice has done on the issue, but I’ll have to leave it to others to pursue that.

All I can do here is to conclude that Victoria Atkins appears to be doing a pretty good job of handling a very prickly issue without resorting to the unthinking sloganeering or simple political cowardice that some of her colleagues have been guilty of." (continues with criticism & consequences of Layla Moran MP's comments re seeing a person's soul rather than sex & insistence that TWAW etc)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/this-mp-has-summed-up-everything-wrong-with-the-transgender-debate/

Hi everyone, I'm the colleague of Rosa's at Reading who tweeted about this yesterday and who was quoted in the BBC piece last night. I just wanted to respond to rightreckoner 's comment of 22:28:21 last night regarding my statement that Rosa has never said anything transexculsionary.

I regret how I phrased this statement in my original tweet. I meant that Rosa's feminism and activism is not transexclusionary, i.e. that she is not a transexclusionary or transphobic person, if that makes sense. I of course recognise that Rosa supports the exclusion of non-biologically female people from some female-only spaces, and I agree with her on that. So it's unfortunate that this sentence was what the Beeb chose to highlight, and I'll think more carefully about my phrasing from now on. The whole thing has been quite an experience.

I would also like to say that it's been very encouraging to read these boards. I've been a Mumsnetter for a long time (under a pseudonym obviously) and the views I've read here and the sense of community on these boards have been an influence on my own desire to go public on this issue. So thanks very much.

The analysis, by Dr Kath Murray, Lucy Hunter Blackburn and Lisa Mackenzie, said that so-called cognitive testing of the changes was done with two groups recruited exclusively from LGBT organisations. No participants were recruited via women’s groups.

Saw this in the Times piece. I'm unfamiliar with cognitive testing in this context. Can anyone enlighten me, please?

Have emailed Rosa and VC of Reading, plus emailed my MP

I’m absolutely disgusted. Rosa is incredibly strong that she continues despite the revolting bastards who are trying to silence her. Pissing on someone’s door is not a polite request for a debate.

R0wantrees, thanks for the links. I see I was mistaken earlier because what we actually have is a Minister for Men and Equalities. Maybe the Minister for Women will address this issue.

She really is amazing

Rosa Freedman
@GoonerProf
A privilege and honour to be invited to talk to MSPs about sex and gender. Really constructive discussion and great to have such engaged politicians who care deeply both about protecting women and protecting trans identifying individuals without conflating the two groups.

Rosa Freedman
‏**@GoonerProf**
Good to hear oral evidence from the trans lobby in Scotland explicitly stating to MSPs that they have changed their position since 2015 and absolutely support women's rights to choose only to have females provide intimate services (eg midwives, police searches, etc)

It's a standard thing to avoid lawsuit's it avoids it being presented as fact before any legal action is taken.

Molten, I would have thought this is standard journalistic procedure.

We may all believe Rosa, but others out there (a particular brave and stunning lawyer) have made a number of "hate" claims without seemingly being able to get the verdicts they want.

Isn't it interesting how the university refers to "alleged incidents" and then The Times article becomes "professor claims" rather than "professor harassed / attacked". It's the university casting doubt on Rosa's version of events which then becomes another version of this never happens, women are not credible witnesses etc

Stephanie Dale - transgender Labour Councillor in Lincolnshire. What is it with Lincolnshire?

Another (non) candidate for Labour's first transgender MP along with our Lils, Sophie Cook and that abusive women's officer in, was it, Shropshire?

Just wondering, where is the Minister for Women and Equalities in all of this ( esp as she read Philosophy at Reading University)? Can she not hear the voices of female academics and reach out to these women being harassed in their work places?

It may be better to try Victoria Atkins MP (Minister for Women), Penny Mordant has seemed resolutely intent on not listening to women's (adult human female) concerns and experiences.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3297184-Your-comments-for-Penny-Mordaunt

This thread evolved from the original one posted by Justine Roberts at the beginning of the Govt. Consultation.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3297067-Mumsnet-moderation-response-to-yesterdays-feedback

As its in another place, 'Talk', there is a risk it gets lost.

There are many important comments, posts and concerns of MN members on the thread including additional questions and comments for Penny Mordant.

The thread which Justine is referring to in her comment & links to:
July 3rd 2018, OP Pratchet wrote:
"A woman is an adult female human
Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3295603-A-woman-is-an-adult-female-human

Just wondering, where is the Minister for Women and Equalities in all of this ( esp as she read Philosophy at Reading University)? Can she not hear the voices of female academics and reach out to these women being harassed in their work places?

I'm not sure if the link to the Times piece upthread has a sharetoken so here is on that does

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-lobby-sent-me-death-threats-claims-professor-qqw7cz609?shareToken=af8d7c8824f35d13e1f04e34a6ecf2d6

Who was this? Brown?

Of course it won't be, if Labour. Silly me

So Prof Freeman receives many letters from academics saying they are intimidated against speaking out. The article in the Spectator last week quoted a journalist who had spoken to many backbenchers who feel the same.

Someone needs to put these people together.

Sussex VC’s statement above is (very) different from Sussex University’s policy for staff which then appeared a few months later: see this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3430006-Sussex-University-new-policy-statement

Dr Freeman this is awful. So sorry. That statement from Reading is absolutely shameful.
Compare with what Sussex university said to support their gender critical Dr Stock when she faced placards and online abuse etc.

Yes the Sussex statement was not as hard hitting as it could have been (appealing for kindness rather than strongly pointing out zero tolerance of threats and aggression and consequences for perps of any harassment beyond free speech boundaries) but the Sussex statement now looks absolutely staunch compared to what Reading said in their tweet upthread. Or failed to say.

Dr F’s employer has legal duties to protect her but also moral duties to protect her and set the tone for their institution and so far they’d appear to be reserving judgment in some way pending investigation.

I hope she is getting the support of other academics and they make representations to their MPs collectively about what is happening and to the government department that covers Science and Universities.

Women’s groups and LGBT groups for students and academics (or such groups for anyone really) need to be making strong statements to condemn this and saying yes to free speech and open debate and no to hate, harassment and victimisation.

m.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/45388

Broadcast: News items
A message from the Vice-Chancellor – living our values
Vice-Chancellor, Adam Tickell
With this week’s launch of the University's new Strategic Framework, Sussex 2025, we have talked about the need for the University to embrace and live by a set of new institutional values. These are: Kindness, Integrity, Inclusion, Collaboration and Courage.

These values were borne out of many discussions with staff, students and our alumni. During our consultations around the Strategic Framework, there was an overwhelming sense that Sussex needs to be a kind and inclusive university – and one that can provide an environment that is safe and accessible to all.

As a diverse community, with a wide range of understandings, there will be many times when our ability to stand by our values will be tested and, of course, we have to test what such values actually mean. There will also be moments when these ideals may rub against each other. However, I believe that living by these values is not only the right thing to do, but it will genuinely help us to thrive as a university.

In our drive to embody these values, we can’t just make statements and then take it as read that others will simply believe our words.

That is definitely the case in terms of our value in relation to inclusion. The University has stated its unstinting commitment to the rights of the LGBTQ+ community, but we must now turn that into action. We will continue to celebrate the diversity of the Sussex community and work to see our LGBTQ+ staff and student body grow. I don't ever want that to change and it sits at the heart of our new Equality, Diversity and Inclusion strategy and the action that we will take.

I have also reflected upon a situation involving an academic member of staff here at Sussex and the concerns raised by some members of our community on the views that she has shared on the Gender Recognition Act, which the government is currently consulting on.

The academic in question has come under fire for articulating views, informed by her philosophical research and scholarship, on the laws and customs surrounding gender identity. Although she has stated that she is fully supportive of the rights of everyone to identify their own gender, she has also raised questions about where boundaries should be set and these have provoked strong feelings and, in some cases, accusations. It’s at this juncture I’ve felt uncomfortable about the implication that there may be something more sinister going on.

This situation is actually a telling example of how we can choose to call upon our values to inform how we act.

By celebrating inclusion, we must recognise the personal courage of the many individuals who come up against abuse or unacceptable behaviour - just because they are being themselves. I know it has been extremely difficult for many people in the transgender and non-binary community to hear the views held by our academic.

But for me, alongside this, we must also be kind to those people who are brave enough to share their own views – and respect the courage they have for doing so. Whether it is one of our academics or another member of staff, or one of our students, I feel very strongly that we must respect their right to free speech. I hold a deep-rooted concern about the future of our democratic society if we silence the views of people we don't agree with – even if our disagreements are vehemently opposed.

Please do not misunderstand me, I am certainly not saying these discussions are easy. I thought very hard about writing this message as I know that there will be some who disagree with what I am saying. But I wouldn’t feel that I was living up to my own ideals about integrity if I didn’t say something on this subject.

So, as our campus community looks ahead to see how we can live by our institutional values in the workplace, I would ask those with different views and understandings to please show kindness to each other. Nobody should be silenced and we must truly listen to the multitude of voices that speak out on matters. But rather than do so from different corners, we should come together and do this respectfully.

Adam Tickell

Posted on behalf of: University of Sussex
Last updated: Friday, 13 July 2018