Nic Williams on Woman's Hour (Tuesday) talking about sport and gender identity

It's almost as if males have an inbuilt physical advantage over females in almost every aspect isn't it? Especially as we now learn that our lady brains are also holding us back

@OlennasWimple

If it's not testosterone and male physique, why are 13-14 year old boys running faster than elite, trained women (possibly) with additional help?

I notice on the peak flow chart a 15 yr old boy (or even 13, 14) potentially has better lung capacity than a female at her prime aged 30.

I really don't know how this translates to athletic ability though. I'm sure there are other factors in the mix.

Seems you cannot talk, with facts and empathy, about mental health issues and beliefs either.

Dragon3 I assumed Beth Jones was trans, not a speculation but an acknowledgement that the views put forward are pro men at the expense of women ....then again that viewpoint doesn’t say much for Ruth Hunt, Linda Riley et al.

If Dr Jones isn't trans (not interested in speculating here, just saying that being a sporty transwoman might explain such an investment)...why on earth does she do it?? I just don't understand it.

Best guess is that that is where the funding was available. It's not easy to get funding for a PhD (possibly harder, I would guess, if your first degree is from Nottingham Trent rather than Russell Group), so perhaps she just went where the money led her.

I notice from her profile that she's also interested in eating disorders and body image. All she has to do is join the dots.

What's the point.

You know, I know, everyone on this thread knows.

There was a similar post on the Twitter thread so you mistbrealise it's nothing nore than a complete misunderstanding and you let someone else's paranoia dictate what I and others post.

My observation on TRAs speaking on WH was a sweeping statement of a group, ok I won't post such opinions on MN again.

Okay, terminology fails. Thanks, Hope.

Christmas - look at the list of no-go terms on the sticky and you'll be fine if you avoid them.

(because TSSDNCOP

The Secret Service Does Not Comment On Procedure

Hold on, so there are different growth charts for boys and girls from the age of 1 year up but there's no physical difference between the sexes that makes any difference in sport?

I am so sick of this nonsense. Why can't more rational people speak up? Who cares if someone feels like the are of the opposite gender? If taking hormones makes you less likely to win in competition with other males, you make your choice. We all make choices that have consequences. If staying at the top of your sport (if you were ever at the top) is more important than your stunning and brace feminine identity, choose the sport. Otherwise take the hormone pills and cheer the women on from the sidelines. We segregate sport by SEX. Some people are better at some sports than others. If there's no difference between the sexes why has it always been set up way? Why is it fucking impossible for women to be faster/stronger than men in so many sports? Now it's apparently acceptable for an ACADEMIC to say it's because women don't try hard enough? What the fuck?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that email you just sent HQ.

It most definately isn't what you think and I think everyone on the thread knows what I meant

But nice of you to not issue a strike for something i didn't do or say

Anyway I won't post anymore today, I don't want to derail, I wanted to add to the general discussion.

I can't think of another example of a woman devoting such a large part of their professional life to including male bodied transwomen in female sport. It's odd. Genuinely can't see why a woman would actively pursue this path in the face of so little evidence to support it.

If Dr Jones isn't trans (not interested in speculating here, just saying that being a sporty transwoman might explain such an investment)...why on earth does she do it?? I just don't understand it.

This thread is clearly making people nervous.

Under His Eye.

As the mother of a daughter, who in her early teens is already noticing how the boys play rougher/faster/hog the ball/only pass to other boys etc etc her school has introduced girls football club, specifically so the girls can get a look in. I can't believe that silly woman on the radio thinks we don't need single sex sports. For me its such a no brainer, and I genuinely worry about the future of womens sports if transwomen compete against women & take the medals....or even take the place of a woman within a team.

as ever, anyone listening with an open mind would recognise the vacuity of Dr (!!) Beth Wilson. So we should encourage transwomen into sport for their emotional health - sidestepping women's health without a backward look. And, oh yes, women should just train a bit harder to catch up.
And REALLY not listening at the beginning when JG suggested that perhaps millions of women do not see themselves as cis women. She went on and finished with saying, so yes, there are millions of (wait for it) CIS WOMEN. Really really not listening.
And she's a doctor.

I don't know if this will be delete too, I did state that I am dyslexic and have poor linguistic intelligence when I posted , so I don't understand why my posts were deleted. I was suggesting research into helping people with poor intelligence levels, I use state there was no blame in not being fantastic at thing and that's why I stated my weaknesses.

Is it because I suggested what weaknesses people have who went on women's hour?

People post about various people in the media and critique them all over Mumsnet.

Only just had a chance to listen to this on catch-up.

I won't reiterate the (excellent) points that have already been made but I noticed that Jane Garvey referred to transwomen and women and transmen and men throughout the programme. At no point did she refer to 'cis', other than to ask Dr Handmaiden to explain what she meant by it.

for JG

Hope - please explain what the deleted posts did wrong. I've been dipping in and out all morning but haven't noticed anything breaking guidelines?

So you can't post about intelligence blog.adioma.com/9-types-of-intelligence-infographic/ or you can't post about people who appeared on women's hour?

Just imagine if Usain Bolt was to come out of retirement and identify as a woman, it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

Quite. No amount of female hormones is going to make Usain Bolt slower than the fastest woman.

What the hell did I say
No one has said abything that isn't try or wasnt blindingly obvious from evidence posted