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Original poster

Census in Scotland proposes that sex and gender identity are the same thing?

34 replies

stumbledin · 03/12/2018 18:40

(I wasn’t aware about this, but saw something posted on facebook and found this):

The Scottish Government regards ―gender identity as already being covered by the reference to ―sex in paragraph 1 of the schedule to the 1920 Act and a census could ask. This document relates to the Census (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill (SP Bill 40) as introduced in the Scottish Parliament on 2 October 2018 questions about gender identity without the amendment of that paragraph being made. Likewise, the Scottish Government regards paragraph 6 of the schedule as providing authority to ask questions about sexual orientation. The main policy aim of the Bill is not, therefore, to facilitate the asking of questions about gender identity and sexual orientation but to make answering those questions effectively voluntary. The policy recognises both the importance and sensitivity of the new questions and seeks to mitigate concerns about intrusion into private life by placing the questions on a voluntary basis.

6.There is an additional reason for amending paragraph 1 of the schedule to add reference to gender identity. The issues of sex and of gender identity are linked, especially if the sex question asked is a non-binary sex question (for example ―Are you male, female, other?). The precise form of the question is still to be considered by Parliament during its scrutiny of the Census Order and regulations. The ―sex question will remain compulsory. For that reason, the Bill does not hard-wire provision that would make answering questions about gender identity voluntary (that might catch the sex question) and, instead, provides a power to prescribe aspects of gender identity (such as trans/trans history) for the purpose of making questions about those aspects voluntary.

www.parliament.scot/S5_Bills/CensusScotlandBill/SPBill40PMS052018.pdf

There was a consultation which closed on 23 November 2018 and written evidence has now been published. (including on from Prof. Rosemary Auchmunty and Prof. Rosa Freedman) www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/CurrentCommittees/109902.aspx

Scotland seems to be at least if not two steps ahead in implementing gender identity as the norm in law rather than sex.

OP posts:
Bubonicpanic · 04/12/2018 07:43

That's an interesting point at the end of the Times article, it says if sex is changed to gender identity feminists may refuse to complete the census.

I agree. I will refuse to complete a census organised by a government than to refuses to recognise my sex. If males with dysphoria are more important then carry on, count them, not me.

CroneXX · 04/12/2018 02:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CroneXX · 04/12/2018 02:10

This reply has been deleted

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2rebecca · 04/12/2018 00:28

Excellent

BetsyM00 · 04/12/2018 00:11

Looks like Rosa Freedman and forwomen.scot are giving evidence at the Committee meeting on Thursday.
www.parliament.scot/S5_European/Meeting%20Papers/CTEEA_20181206PublicPapers.pdf

Ereshkigal · 03/12/2018 23:44

Who knew or was aware at the time that the original GRA that created the legal fiction that proving you had a gender identity allowed you to be said to have changed sex.

Hansard record shows that people were aware of this in 2004 and the potential problems. They allowed it because it was only ever intended to apply to a few thousand poor oppressed souls.

Original poster
stumbledin · 03/12/2018 23:01

I know - its really frightening how quickly it is happening and not everyone is aware that events like this are even happening.

Does look like some women in Scotland are trying to challenge this trans tsunami. But too often we seem to be raising our voices after the event has actually happened. scottish-women.com/2018/12/01/census-bill-to-change-sex-to-gender-identity/

Who knew or was aware at the time that the original GRA that created the legal fiction that proving you had a gender identity allowed you to be said to have changed sex.

And since then with the strategically effective in house training across media, politics and now schools, the blurring of the distinction between sex and gender is now socially ingrained. Built on the ingrained misogynist norms that women and particularly older women should not be listened too.

No amount of tweeting, facebooking, mumsnetting is actually impinging on the wider social trends that influence the majority. Sad

OP posts:
Hackedoffwoman · 03/12/2018 20:24

This scares the beejesus out of me! How the hell did we end up here? I hope the MSPs use whatever critical thinking they have left to see what is happening.