Can boys be civilised, as in, made civil?

Is it possible for girls to be less whiney / bitchy / cliquey/ spiteful I wonder? I don't know it's just every time I see a girl behave like that I hear their mums say "oh well that's girls for you"

It drives me crazy because I put so much effort into encouraging my boys to be friendly, inclusive, and not to hold grudges. But time and time again i see the girls in little gangs, falling out with each other excluding one of the group, telling tales on each other etc.. .And it's just shrugged off because girls will be girls and all that.

Have any of the mums of these spiteful whiners tried their best and know better than me what girls are really like? Or have they been shrugging their shoulders all along and not even attempted to avoid what they believe is typical female behaviour?

My son has never been violent but he can be boisterous. But then so can I. I was happy playing pirates and fighting sharks as a child and quite happy to do those things with ds.
I would have been equally happy and comfortable with a daughter who liked bouncing on beds, singing really loud and scooting very fast. Kids have mad energy sometimes, boys OR girls sometimes have trouble being sedate. That doesn't mean they are being brought up to hurt people. Excusing violence is just shit parenting no matter which sex.

Oh goodness, EarlyWalker, no one has done any such thing. Why do you think feminists would want to do that?

🤔

HTKS - I used to play football with my DS, until he got so much better than me that it's not fun for either of us anymore. See also - cricket, baseball, tennis, badminton.... The only physical game that we can really play with each other is tag, and frankly I give it a year before he is consistently faster than me. He's only 13 (and I'm not terrible at sports)

Meanwhile DD sits quietly and paints and draws...

That's good Polly. I think it's mostly peer pressure, which is why I get so cross when some parents act as though their decisions are made in a vacuum. We do all affect each other. A couple of parents let their child behave in an inconsiderate way, and others join on. More noticeable in a small town perhaps as well.

I agree polly

Adding - no unsupervised internet. All screen use is heavily monitored.

Exactly safeandwarm. Some children respond and learn from being told no to hitting etc and for others it takes a lot longer and a lot more perseverance.

Fantastiqueangel - I don't ever see this - at all. I live near a large boys school and the boys very polite. Always make room for the buggy, they'll chat to my son at length. Apologise if they are in the way.

I think about this a lot NineNine and dh and I have talked about it a lot. I have a daughter and 3 sons.

We have high expectations for all our children, but speaking just about raising boys here, they need a high behaviour bar and lots of meaningful and labour intensive work. Dh models this for them, he absolutely comes down like a ton of bricks if they disrespect me or their sister. Dh is very clear that they earn respect by being respectable.

We also emphasise bodily autonomy and explicit consent in smaller moments all the time. They grow up hearing that everyone is the boss of their own bodies, that you back right away when you hear or 'see' a no, and that strength is a responsibility to help people.

We personally have made some outside of normal family choices that help us control the kind of peer socialisation that can happen with boys.

They spend a lot of time with some very badass girls, too.

MnerXX thanks for posting.

No no-one is claiming that boisterous behaviour is bad, but many were implying that boisterous behaviour and hitting other children is solely down to bad parenting.

I don’t encourage my boy to act crazy in the supermarket because he’s a boy. But when he does I try my best to get him to stop. All the while subject to tutting and ‘helpful’ comments from strangers. According to some on this thread I must be patting myself on the back delighted about what a ‘real’ boy I’m raising and that he’s bound to be a violent criminal when he’s older.

MNerXX - I think you sound like a great Mum, clearly doing everything that anyone could expect.

I'll say it again - normal childhood 'boisterous' or 'violent' behaviour is nothing like adult male violence. Anyone who see's worrying behaviour is any child should be concerned about the home environment. I did some pretty horrid things as a child, why - because I was living with a man who could explode at any moment and I had a huge amount of anxious energy.

What I do notice is in slightly older children. Preteen and young teens. The boys, around here, are overall more inconsiderate in public. Riding bikes quickly on pavements and nearly knocking over pedestrians. Riding without lights. Hanging around in huge groups and commenting to passers by. I don't think this is biological behaviour. At some point, they must be getting different messages. I don't think it is individual parents particularly either, more a societal thing. We literally never see a single group of girls doing this. I know some of them, and individually they are pleasant enough, but the group behaviour is different. Where does it come from?

Ah, NAMALT in action, always such a pleasure to see.

Well if the OP is going to make a goady, shit generalisation in the fucking thread title...

Oh goodness, EarlyWalker, no one has done any such thing. Why do you think feminists would want to do that?

Oh sorry mnerXX I thought your post was coming from a feeling of being criticised or your ds being criticised and I was trying to say there's no need to feel that way when you're obviously working so hard and so intelligently to support your ds.

Posted in feminism so we can all talk about how nasty boys and men are obvs.

My daughters the uncivilised one, she rolls around in mud like a pig in shit, has ADHD and does not stop running around the room, bouncing off the walls and hitting things, sometimes people.

My sons only little but all he wants to do is cuddle and kiss everyone.

I do hate the phrase ‘boys will be boys’ though.

My post was meant to be the very opposite of NAMALT. Here I am the parent with that child but we are desperately trying to help him.

Everyone else is discussing their children and their parenting strategies - why is it not ok for me to mention DS? Why is that NAMALT?

Yes he has problems with anger management and occasional violence as well so I think our experiences are relevant to the thread. Apologies if I was unclear, the post got long

Ah, NAMALT in action, always such a pleasure to see.

Did anyone criticise boisterous behaviour? I think what was in question was minimising aggressive boundary violating or out of control behaviours as 'merely boisterous' when they are not merely boisterous. Also it is parental minimisation not the behaviours of the children themselves that are being criticised.

My DS is 7 and most definitely boisterous, physical etc.

He has always had to have firm boundaries and always pushes them. We are good parents. DH is hands on as well. There is no violence in our house, he has had a range of toys and clothes (he has a doll, a princess dress and raids my make up alongside all of the rest of the more typical clothes), he was an early talker, we never minimise his behaviour or talk in terms of gender stereotypes. He does a lot of physical activity and plays an instrument as well. He has a reputation of being physical so DH and I monitor him as best we can and remove him from situations that have gone awry. He is an only child but we have pets which have really helped with his empathy. He is worse near illness (before and after), if he’s tired, stressed or excited, and/he if one of us has been away.

I have read a lot of parenting books, had advice from nursery, childminder, health visitor, the gp, school nurse, a paediatrician we know, positive parenting classes, school, SENCO and even a clinical psychologist this month. We are as engaged as we possibly can be because we are trying to help him manage his behaviour and because in a small village, his card was marked a long time ago.

He is not autistic, doesn’t have ADHD etc. He is developmentally behind in managing anger and excitement. He needs time, patience and a little extra support to build up his skills.

Those of you who have less boisterous children are lucky. We haven’t chosen this path. We have done everything we ‘should’ have done and more but here we are.

He is boisterous but he is also loving, charismatic, funny, imaginative, sensitive and kind.

Sometimes you just have to manage the hand life dealt you as best as you can... maybe some of these parents as best as they can as well.

Yes, it's certainly a but suspicious that this was posted in the feminism section rather than the parenting one...

I know a surprising number of extremely middle-class people who do the "boys will be boys" thing even if they don't exactly say it out loud. And even when it doesn't excuse outright violence I see it excusing a lot of entitled behaviour that would be shamed out of a girl.

I have boys and my boys (so far) are civilised. If in doubt, I make an effort to ask myself "would I tolerate this behaviour from a little girl?".

DearTeddyRobinson you've missed her point.