Julie Bindel is on Woman's Hour tomorrow!

I find it very difficult to believe that Linda has never heard of any lesbians being pressured to accept transwomen.
Julie was fantastic, very articulate. Linda's arguments just amounted to appealing to female socialisation to be nice. At least Linda was there to discuss it though, better than refusing to share a studio with GC people.

Linda never heard of this pressure for lesbians to conform to "inclusivity"(dicks)?
AfterEllen, a lesbian and bi site on twitter w 123k followers (diva mag only has 75k followers), just posted Arielle Scarcellas vlog about exactly this titled "Dear Trans Women, please stop pushing girl dick on lesbians"

RudolfIsMySpiritAnimal I don't tweet, what's the reaction looking like on Twitter?

Nor am I, but looking at the WH page itself, am I being stupid? I can't see any Tweets about Julie's appearance, although there are others about different parts of the show.

twitter.com/BBCWomansHour

Oh dear. Linda didn't do very well against Julie. JB was as always very articulate and effective and talked about material reality while Linda... was neither of those things and talked about feelings and being offended.
But was there an elephant in the room there?

Linda's entire argument involved now transwomen are the victims of sexual violence, the victims of domestic violence, and the transgender day of remembrance,

At the absolute best, Linda seems to be arguing for a pity fuck for transwomen, whilst at exactly same time telling women exactly how dangerous men are.

It's difficult to listen to such rank stupidity.

Linda quoted Stonewall numbers about transwomen being victims of domestic violence.

I do find it hard to believe this - that a born man suffers domestic violence at the hands of a woman ( a wife or girlfriend assuming it was a heterosexual relationship to begin with) simply because men are bigger and stronger than women so unless it's being done in manner of Pauline Fowler with a frying pan I simply don't believe in the violence aspect. Huge rows yes, physical domestic violence no.

Did Linda misquote it with 'domestic' violence rather than just violence?

Julie was great as always.

I can't fathom Linda Riley. I genuinely wish I could understand how she can not centre women.

Is it that to her it's a good thing, progressive, that she can now be an out and proud lesbian without feeling obliged to make everything she does about or for lesbians?

And again, I am struck by the fact that two women with diametrically opposed views managed to have a civil and perfectly listenable debate.

Contrast that to ANY segment where one of the participants is a man.

I am at work in a very quiet office and when Linda claimed Julie was using transphobic language, I did an audible sort of snort/laugh/swearword.

It was a car crash for Linda and Julie was possibly the most articulate, clear and simplistic (as a compliment) speaker I have heard on WH to date.

(PS. Can all lesbians please now write to diva to challenger Linda's claim that not one of their 100k readers have ever said anything like that at all ever ever ever?)

I fervently wish Julie had asked her whether or not two men giving each other fellatio is lesbian sex, if they both identify as women.

2D + L = 69!

Linda finding it hard to hear this kind of language- Penis!

Pun intended?!

For the pp who wanted the highlights
German Shepard
Penis penis penis
Transphobia
The end

so a trans lesbian is a trans woman who is sexually attracted to women? Julie said this was a “straight mans fantasy” and she’s absolutely right. A lesbian having sex with a penis owning trans woman= not lesbian sex, it’s heterosexual sex, surely? I listened to this episode with my adult daughter, who is a newly out lesbian. She says that she doesn’t feel like she belongs in the lgbt community at all. She calls it the capital T movement. She says that nobody gives a shit about lesbians anymore. She feels that the lgbt movement has been hijacked by transwomen. She tries to join local lgbt groups and doesn’t bother because they’re dominated by trans women.
Julie totally owned this discussion. Linda was either ignorant of the issues or pretending to be. Linda has no counter argument. Linda couldn’t debate the subject coherently with Julie. Julie was very reasonable. As per usual, the response to her clear headed, logical discussion was “you’re transphobic”
I am so fucking sick of it.

Lesbian with a penis and beard is truth, no wonder Linda struggles hearing it and reverts to the transphobia accusation.

Transphobia = speaking truth.

Linda just seemed to disagree with everything but had absolutely no points to make of her own. No constructive argument. No acknowledgement even that some may have boundaries.

Julie raised the issues, discussed the difference of views, stated facts based on material reality, framed the current debate in historical context for lesbians. Very very revealing when the two were discussing in real time and not pre recorded as before.

Also German Shepherds!

Diva is supposedly a lesbian magazine, but they now believe that straight transwomen are more important than their target market?

Follow the money,..

I don't tweet, what's the reaction looking like on Twitter?

It was great that Julie pointed out that no other movement was asked why they weren’t centring other groups e.g the black civil rights movement weren’t askedwhy they weren’t campaigning for disability rights.

God I LOVE the Bindel. She's witty, clued up and will not be side stepped by usurpers.

I've always wanted to use the phrase 'tour de force' and I will do that here.

The opposing interviewee was embarrassing.

I'm glad Julie at least got to actually say lesbians with a beard and penis. And the fact that Linda Riley found that transphobic and uncomfortable speaks volumes for how pressurised she is, despite thinking she isn't.

This ideology makes women like Linda look ridiculous.

I fervently wish Julie had asked her whether or not two men giving each other fellatio is lesbian sex, if they both identify as women.

Because Jane had said there are quite a few people who don't understand the relevance of these sex and gender programmes.

Julie Bindel what a woman! So calm, so concise, so eloquent. Speaking the truth with absolute clarity.

Oh my days, well done Julie.

Credit to Linda for turning up

She found it offensive that lesbians say they've had a difficult experience growing up - she said "Well so have trans" - which is true, but a completely different thing.

So strong and clear from Julie. Linda finding the word penis transphobic will surely make many listeners realise that the accusation of 'transphobia' is an empty one!

Julie was eloquent, clear and argued well. I found it difficult to work out what Linda was trying to say. Well done Jane.