Julie Bindel is on Woman's Hour tomorrow!

The German Shepard’s might be wee furries
Got to be inclusive 😂😂😂

She owns a lesbian magazine, you'd think she was well versed in the topic.

What a strange interview.

In a way it wasn't a fair fight, as Julie was clearly much more polished, much more articulate, her arguments much more rehearsed. Linda seemed to be completely out of her depth, and by the end was reduced to saying that Julie's language was "transphobic", which hardly constituted an argument. Even when invited to have the last word, all she could say was that she strongly disagreed with Julie.

I was wondering why they had her rather than, say, Ruth Hunt, but I'd guess that all the usual suspects refused to debate.

I'm lost on the way language is evolving

Years ago you would have kept it private if you were someone with a particular kink but now it's meant to be acceptable to identify openly as a furry or a little etc - even acceptable enough to go to work as such

Whereas basic terminology for body parts and adults e.g. Male or female is becoming increasingly UnPC to use

I am not able to listen, can someone please explain German Shepard's

Are there actually German Shepherds in DIVA magazine?

I like GS

I don’t know why you said lesbians haven’t told you about pressure on girls to have sex with trans women @LindaRiley8 as I thought we discussed that when we met? And I’ve asked you specifically to cover a list of issues worrying lesbians. Should I resend it?

Linda Riley
‏**@LindaRiley8**
I said I I have never heard direct from lesbians who have said they have been pressured, of course I have heard the myths you and many others try to portray as reality.

Here: twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1069577028331061249

Has Linda Riley never heard of the Cotton Ceiling? Or seen Riley Dennis's video on "transphobic genital preferences"? Really??

I find it very difficult to believe that Linda has never heard of any lesbians being pressured to accept transwomen.

I think it's very clear that Linda has heard it plenty of times. It's just that it automatically translates in her brain as transphobia as the lesbians aren't being 'inclusive' enough.

That was brilliant though. I'm sure there are hundreds of people out there going 'wtf' at Julie saying lesbians don't want penises and beards in their beds (duh) and Linda telling her she's transphobic.

It is good that they were both discussing it at the same time, instead of a pre-recorded piece - well done Linda for that (low bar!).

It was weird how Linda said she found it difficult to hear that kind of language - not just that she disagrees, or thinks that the words were transphobic, but the words themselves were difficult to hear - it's like any perceived negative words in relation to trans issues take on the power to actually cause pain themselves. From the discussion I took that Linda is an older lesbian who has been around and done stuff. She must have heard misogynistic, homophobic things, but these words from Julie were so awful to her she had to label them 'phobic and say they were hard to hear. It's very peculiar.

I think the language she decided was transphobic was probably referencing male body parts re trans women, in combination with Julie unwilling to be polite and nice and kind about everyone and everything. A combination of words and tone.

Someone up thread mentioned the womans hour twitter feed. This item's just been put on (at 1pm).

Linda Rileyis amember of the national board directors at GLAAD, major player in the US for advocating LGBT rights in the media. It was founded in the 80s for LGB rights and they also have a global initiative, take a look. They launched the UK arm in October 2015 with a two day event at the House of Lords. We live in interesting times 🤔

hackmum, be careful. I was deleted and given my first strike for using that term to identify men who want to say they’re women.

That plus German Shepherds and PENIS.

Wonderful stuff JB

I just listened in my lunch and snort-choked at Julie Bindel:

When I use the term "butch" I mean visible obvious lesbians I don't mean those who look like they could go round kick-starting their own vibrators, I mean just visible obvious lesbians- who are now being told and asked "when are you transitioning"

BRAVA

I bang in about this stuff at home all the time but still my DP gets confused half the time about which way round it works

Mine too. But it's a good example of how the TRAs manipulate language to their advantage. "Trans identified male" is a much clearer term.

Okay, I may be overreacting.
I just like to know about credentials, when a journalist is on a radio show to talk about issues surrounding a potential law change and dismisses the affect on all women and girls.

Just listened to it and thought Julie Bindel was fantastic. Warm, humorous, persistent and credible. A great person to have on the side of women (adult human female).

I am looking forwards to listening to this on my commute home. Thanks all for the links & summary of the debate.

Jeez Riley did know about lesbians being pressured into sex with dick owners from the twitter thread up above

Now, it wouldn't somehow be appropriate for Woman's Hour to issue that correction because it's not practical to prove whether or not something slipped someone's memory. After all, fact-checking organisations tend to correct matters of fact or when numbers/stats/events are uttered by politicians or other mainstream representatives.

However - there's no reason for that twitter thread not to be posted to both WH's and Riley's Twitter, I should think. (I'm not on Twitter.)

I didn't hear it - hopefully I'll catch up later. But for the editor of a lesbian magasine to claim they haven't heard about lesbians being pressurised to have sex with transwomen is a fucking joke. I'm straight and I've heard about it, and not only on here. Let's just say that for a journalist, her lack of curiosity is startling.

Crs
Your link about the Jack the Ripper museum includes a link that is described as Riley's" impressive CV"
Not much prior to 2017 in there.

I have to say I agree with a pp that it's frustrating to not hear proper coherent arguments from the non-GC side.

There is no argument that can justify same-sex attraction has disappeared and been replaced with same gender attraction, thereby obliterating sexual orientation on every level. But only resulting in a benefit to men.

Especially as sexual orientation is a protected characteristic under equality law.

Julie was brilliant but I am frustrated at how impenetrable the debate is to the uninitiated

And I agree with this. Talking about patriarchy and lesbianism being such a threat to it, is going to lose some people.

I wish she had just said so are you saying there is no such thing as homosexuality, or it's not based on same-sex attraction?

Jeez Riley did know about lesbians being pressured into sex with dick owners from the twitter thread up above

Lying lying

It’s all about the money

From Private Eye in October, re Linda Riley: