Julie Bindel is on Woman's Hour tomorrow!

I was wondering why they had her rather than, say, Ruth Hunt, but I'd guess that all the usual suspects refused to debate.

Ruth Hunt refused to debate Jonny Best in case he asked her what a woman was. In an earlier WH episode, Bex Stinson of Stonewall said that 'no debate' is now their official policy. Jane Garvey was not impressed.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly

hmmm I wonder ....

Linda saying that she only hears non-lesbians talking about this is a perfectly good argument. Why didn't she make that point to Julie Bindel? What could possibly be the reason?

Linda referring to the concerns of lesbians as 'myths' makes me really fucking angry. How dare she?

@MsJemimaPuddleduck I'm going to make some #LiteralViolets badges one of these days.

I think some nice purple petals in the background will show the true danger that words describing material reality pose to Linda et al, ie none.

Linda: "I haven't heard ANY claims by ANY lesbians EVER"
The internet:

DIVA - if your USP is supposed to be for lesbians, then STOP "including" a bunch of heterosexuals and MALES.
This is ridiculous.
If anyone wants that material, they can pick up ALMOST ANY OTHER MAGAZINE. If you need sex tips for penises, Cosmo has a bunch of them. Trust me, they'll apply to male-bodied people no matter what that person's gender identity is.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Agree that Linda is just denying her complicity in this disastrous state of affairs. Of COURSE she knows about the struggles lesbians are facing, especially young ones. I bet this has to do with money and political capital.

Woman's Hour transphobic? Perhaps that's the sort of reaction we need to get the BBC females fired up and onside.

Autumncrow - I love this! : 'Literal Violets' 🤣

It's interesting that this has touched the rawest nerve. Twitter is a flurry. Women's hour is transphobic.

I guess underneath it all is a deep insecurity.

I'm curious. Amongst high profile gay trans allies, have any, like cashman or Jones, or this Linda lady, actually dated a transperson?

I mean disappointed with Linda.

I was disappointed too with Julie. Fucking funding making liars of them all. How the hell can women hope to push it back. No one is interested in funding women’s groups unless they include men. No one is interested in funding kids groups unless they include trans kids or are breast binding or some other shit. I am actually seeing Gilead happening. First they got our women’s / lesbian groups. Then our language. Then our kids bodies. Then our lesbians bodies.

Just had a look at Linda's twitter feed. It's full of lesbians praising her for taking a stand against the transphobic bigots and telling her she did a brilliant job.

Can ANY of these women explain why a lesbian not wanting to have sex with a male bodied transwoman is transphobic? Can anyone here explain their logic, what is their argument exactly?

Yes, Linda went full Literal Violets at the end.

I am disappointed that a discussion that started so well, ended once again in a trans ally seeking to police the language being used by women to discuss their experiences.
Linda managed to suggest that not only was Julie using transphobic language, but that it was causing her harm just to have to listen to it. I honestly got the impression that she expected Jane to close Julie down for using some sort hate speech.

Are they covering sport tomorrow ? Does anyone know who the guests are ?

'Tidying up' the facts also gives people loopholes to claim exaggeration or lies. Life is always messy.

I thought the domestic violence stats also include any violence in family e.g. father, son, brothers. So father or brother beating up trans family member would also count.

You're right, Ihaventgottimeforthis, it's best to stick with slightly messy facts rather than tidied ones that tell a black and white story. The slightly messy facts tell a clear enough story.

Oh yes I agree that male DV against women far far outweighs the other way round. And some of female on male violence may well be retaliation after years of abuse.
But still, it does exist and perhaps patriarchy is responsible for stopping those male victims from speaking up and getting the help & support they need, for exactly the reason a pp didn't believe it could happen. Assumptions that males are always stronger, and always happy to resort to physical violence when threatened.

30 men a year die as a result and 2 women a year (104?).. That's two women a week, not a year.

Men also kill their ex's new partner, would that count as a DV murder?

No we shouldn't ignore it. I have been reading that 1 in 4 women experience domestic violence and 1 in 6 men. 30 men a year die as a result and 2 women a year (104?). It doesn't say who is the perpetrator is, and we do know that some of the male perpetrators also kill their children along with their wife/partner. The site I was reading did not say how many children are killed.

Men do experience abuse but on far less of a scale than women.

It's not ignoring it to say that it happens to women more.

2 women a week

Most men who are killed by partners are killed in response to subjecting women over long periods who eventually fight back with tragic consequences.

It's not to say it never happens or we ignore it. All domestic violence is awful.

But the statistics don't show women kill men as much as men kill women

crsacre, I’m interested in the GLAAD angle too, their list of donors is pretty extensive and includes the Tawani foundation.