DD made to feel uncomfortable in the ladies

Male cleaners wait until the toilets are empty before they go in, and make sure no women accidentally wander in.

That's how it should be.

I experienced both, and I will obviously prefer the place where the male cleaner was considerate in the future. It was a hotel, perhaps that's why.

Interestingly, the place where the male cleaner just walked in like he owned the place and made me feel extremely uncomfortable with not just his presence but also his rude behaviour, was also at a ... "services" in English is also the places next to the road, right?

Probably they think they can behave like this because women have no choice there.

I work with a lot of large centres; you really think in a shopping centre where the ladies toilets have more than 30 cubicles, that a male attendant can knock at the door? And then make sure no one is there?

They don't. They just go in and do their job. There is usually a "cleaning in progress" stand so it's your choice to go in or not, but they aren't closed.

Using an argument which I just wrong devalues all the other argument used. So don't say "well male attendants knock and wait until it's empty so they aren't in there when women are so it doesn't count". It's not true. And it taps away at our credibility.

Spottycake, the problem is that male cleaners aren't in the ladies loos to validate their fetish of females being included in their scenario.
And the problem with unisex loos is that men piss on the floor and piss on the seat. And going by accounts seen recently on this site, of newly created gender neutral toilets, men also piss with the cubicle door wide open. So you think that women should have to put up with all that too, should we? Nice.
Not to mention the other things that men seem to spend excessive amounts of time doing in the toilets that the vast majority of women do not - long bowel movements and wanking, to name but a few.
See also voyeurism/planted camera incidents arising in relatively new unisex toilet set ups.
Seriously, do you think critically at all when you type??

I think female bathrooms - ones with rows of cubicles and sinks outside have become more than simply where you do your business

On one hand doing our business- it's quite humiliating depending on your age if you need to change your sanpro or if you've ever been caught panicky and decided to do a pregnancy test on the spot for men to overhear you

But it's also a space we congregate in - we escape to it to talk to other women away from male ears

Sometimes we go there for a private sob away from male ears

We do our makeup and our hair

We don't only use them to do our business tbh

Yeah, he'd probably claim to be nonbinary, but seeing him in full male attire might change the minds of some who didn't yet know how nonsensical things have gotten.

I always think the bathroom thing is a bad way to highlight it. Make attendants clean the bathrooms just as much as female. The cubicle you're using is isolated and lockable. It's really a difficult one to argue.

Male attendants should knock at the door and ask if anyone is using the toilet before entering, and there should be a sign telling women that there's a male attendant.

Many loos don't have closed cubicles, there's space at the bottom and the upper end of the door where a man can put a phone inside and film. Men do it in unisex facilities very often, I think one uni even considered changing back to sex segregated after a lot of women complained about this.

It is not really difficult to argue. It is just that they won't listen until there's at least absolute certainty that men will look at naked women and there's a high risk of rape.

There's some trans allies who will agree that males shouldn't be in women's prisons, but they are not willing to admit that males in women's prisons are the inevitable outcome of pretending that transwomen are women.

Male!!!! Not make.

And I distinctly remember being like, 11 years old at the services at about 2am during the drive home from holiday. I was in the toilets and there was s make cleaner cleaning away. As they do. First time I saw a man in the ladies toilets... But I just carried on!

@Spottycake

No they don't. That's why they all have signs warning you that make attendants will clean. They certainly don't shut the toilets while they clean them in any of the very large shopping centres i regularly go to. The make cleaner is just in there, cleaning. And nobody freaks out.

Male cleaners wait until the toilets are empty before they go in, and make sure no women accidentally wander in.

Won't he just claim he is non binary?

I really don't understand non binary myself. I understand throwing off gender stereotypes but not buying into them on that level

I always think the bathroom thing is a bad way to highlight it. Make attendants clean the bathrooms just as much as female. The cubicle you're using is isolated and lockable. It's really a difficult one to argue.

Now, a changing room or nude spa/sauna etc... that's easier to argue that we feel unsafe. She should stiĺ raise it with the uni, particularly the fact that she's had contact with one of them whilst they were presenting as a man so she knows him as a man. But dont be sure of a good response.

The answer really us just unisex bathrooms with their own contained toilet and sink.

That's really horrible. Why are we suddenly frightened of reporting this?