DD made to feel uncomfortable in the ladies

The EHRC also removed a specific sentence from their guidance which implied that you couldn't as a service provider refuse access to female toilets, due to being challenged by Fair Play for Women.

It seems transwomen certainly can legally be refused access to women's toilets. It's written from the TRA side but the provisions are explicitly clear www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/transgender-people-no-right-single-sex-spaces-government-penny-mordaunt-toilets-changing-rooms-a8414771.html

Am in a no bullshit mode after just watching this excellent talk by Meghan Murphy, and listening to the many idiotic questions posed by audience members

I posted this in the early hours of this morning. It looks like the whole channel the video was on has been wiped. So much feminist content.

We really need to just say no. Fuck off. En masse. Or we will lose everything.

Stayed?? quoted

Old crone, from the Scottish sex offenders in prison thread. I’ll look into where the figure stayed is from.

Perhaps this thread should have a link on the 'this never happens' thread

That is harassment of an individual who hasn't done anything wrong.

Haven't they? If one day they're in the ladies' and insisting they have a right to be there as a transwoman, and the next they're wearing a man's suit and tie (and no wig) - are you sure they've done nothing wrong?

If they just present differently day-to-day, no problem. It's when they insist they are actually a woman when they're in womanface that it becomes a problem.

If it happens again, take photo in a way one can tell it is recent (calendar in the background?) and anonymously spread it on the internet and in print at the uni.

What the hell? That is harassment of an individual who hasn't done anything wrong. Really don't see how this differs to TRA intimidation tactics. Can we just remember that we are talking about a person here.
(Am just as GC as anyone else - but this kind of thinking just seems totally removed from any sort of critical empathy.)

the one in two sex offender figure

What's that?

Complaints- I think thats partly the way forward. Complain to venues/ businesses every single time I feel my rights are being trampled on. Women’s rights are human rights. I’m going to get some of those stickers too and mention the one in two sex offender figure to everyone I know at the earliest opportunity.

Use their own bullshit against them Yes
Switch the dis-comfort back to them when in our spaces
I want us to share some "sisterly" girly bathroom room chat. Like "Hey Donna, did you read that article about male privilege I sent you?" Or "Have you tried the new fore-skin lotion?" (maybe not) Or just chant trigger trigger trigger trigger penis penis penis" Or something about male pattern violence or other feminist topics. And just ignore them.

Open to ideas because it is becoming a regular thing to encounter where I live.

Yes. Why are we required to let males into this female space?

But saying, as a stand alone argument, "I was uncomfortable that 2 men where standing in the room... whilst I was going into a locked cubicle". The answer you will have screamed at you is that there was no real danger, and even if it had been men and not transwomen there still wouldn't have been much danger.

But that's not my argument. My argument is a series of questions. What is the benefit of letting men into women's spaces? Who benefits and in what way? Why is this better than the current system of sex segregation?

Am in a no bullshit mode after just watching this excellent talk by Meghan Murphy, and listening to the many idiotic questions posed by audience members

Meghan Murphy speech at event hosted by Lindsay Shepherd
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3440206-meghan-murphy-speech-at-event-hosted-by-lindsay-shepherd

I agree - I didn't mean to sound negative about their achievements. They did a lot to get this into the public eye.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing with you, I wasn't, just saying that it all counts and the war won't be won immediately.

The answer you will have screamed at you is that there was no real danger, and even if it had been men and not transwomen there still wouldn't have been much danger.

I prefer to challenge this type of bullshit rather than pander to it.

And they achieved a lot. They got the issue into the public eye in a big way.

I agree - I didn't mean to sound negative about their achievements. They did a lot to get this into the public eye.

What Oldcrone said.

I think when women are arguing about arguing... it's exactly what a lot of them want. Us to distract ourselves from the fact they aren't listening while we work out how we might make them listen

Why are you calling toilets bathrooms? Are you American?

Holstenlane

As soon as we capitulate and agree that we have to prove that we're in danger just to keep what we already have - we're on the way to losing. We have to stand our ground and say no. We don't have to prove anything. They do. And if they can't, then things have to stay as they are. No men in women's spaces.

Holsten

Polite request. I am on the thread responding. Please stop @ing me. It's a useful function when someone wants to call you back to a thread. But you don't need to do it when I am right here. Could I ask you to respect my wishes on this.

@Ereshkigal

I agree, no men in women's spaces. But arguing the bathroom thing alone... It doesn't have much impact. If it wa solely related to them being allowed in public bathrooms and nothing else, then I wouldn't get worked up. A lot of people wouldn't.

I, and a lot of people, don't want them allowed in bathrooms purely because it opens the door the the other spaces where we really are vulnerable. Defending those spaces is easier. So saying "you cannot let them in bathrooms because then men can come into our dormitories where we are asleep and can't defend ourselves, or our changing rooms where we are naked etc etc".

But saying, as a stand alone argument, "I was uncomfortable that 2 men where standing in the room... whilst I was going into a locked cubicle". The answer you will have screamed at you is that there was no real danger, and even if it had been men and not transwomen there still wouldn't have been much danger. That may or may not be true, but this the response you will get. Which is why I said right at the start that focussing only on the bathrooms isn't going to get the job done.

Holsten

We know these things. We don't need a potted history of transactivism. I don't believe we should pretend that ladies' toilets aren't important to women. They are, to the vast majority.