DD made to feel uncomfortable in the ladies

Where is the bullying, scott in a woman saying ‘no. I do not want to share this woman only space with a man’?

That was my question. Not what someone wrote and got deleted (MN deletes transphobic posts, so much for being a hotbed of hatred.)

My question was what is bullying about me saying I don’t want to share a changing room, refuge, loo or prison cell with a man?

And I will also ask: do you think humans can change sex?

Materalist they can also provide them with a staggered schedule of who is allowed to use the shower at what time, and locks can be added to stall doors for privacy.

There's a lot in the new rules I'm not happy with, but the confidentiality rule for complaints goes both ways.

Two points. 1. Bullying? Women asserting a boundary and saying nois not bullying.where is the bullying you see here? What is the reprehensible behaviour?

2. If it’s burly men that are the issue then this is a Male violence problem. Take it to the men.

I'm guessing you haven't read the rest of the thread?

I'm talking about the below comments and the (now deleted by mumsnet) suggestion to take photos of them in states of undress and post on social media.

Clearly bullying...

Or what if we bring a few big, burly men in with us and they stare down the intruders? (Esp in locker rooms) Or teams of fearless women to "monitor" the space.They need to feel more discomfort.

Or just chant "trigger trigger trigger trigger penis penis penis" Or something about male pattern violence or other feminist topics.

Consent is about the right to say no to the violation of your boundaries. Other women can't give my consent for me.

Exactly.

Why do we even have to point that out? Should be obvious.

t's not enough unless you can conclusively demonstrate that it's the majority of women who feel this way.

Actually it’s the other way around. If you want such a drastic change it’s you who needs to bring the evidence and persuade people.

Did you know that single stall bathrooms in California are required to be open to either sex?

That's the entirety of state law on gender neutral bathrooms, and the current push is for more single stall bathrooms.

In a land where referendums rule, no one has been able to gather enough signatures to "use the bathroom they identify with" for the voters to even consider.

Just thought I'd throw in a flash of sanity.

It's not enough unless you can conclusively demonstrate that it's the majority of women who feel this way.

No. It is the majority. But it doesn't have to be. Consent is about the right to say no to the violation of your boundaries. Other women can't give my consent for me.

@NameChangeToAvoidBeingFound You cannot/should not use disabled toilets unless you're disabled

Well, I'd be surprised if many men went through gender reassignment surgery just to have a quick perve.

Who are you referring to here, Scott? It's clearly not the person in the OP, since: the trans woman in question attended an event a couple of months ago (where they probably were not expecting to see anyone they knew) but was dressed as a man.

Are you aware of just how few 'transwomen' get GRS, or even want to?

ScottCheggJnr

What is it about the word NO that is so hard for you to understand? We don't need a reason in the slightest. NO is more than enough. Be told.

I take it Scott hasn't heard of Jonathon Yaniv.

The teenage girls who commented on absolutely-male Eddie Izzard using a women's loo: should they have just kept quiet and left? I seem to remember he accused them of bullying.

I'm not saying they should necessarily get unbridled access to women's spaces, but it's really disturbing to imagine a transwoman who perceives herself to be female, makes every effort to fit in and cause no trouble to the women around her, being photographed/exposed online, bullied by women who outnumber
her, and physically intimidated by burly men. That's pretty reprehensible no matter where you stand

Two points. 1. Bullying? Women asserting a boundary and saying no is not bullying. where is the bullying you see here? What is the reprehensible behaviour?

1. If it’s burly men that are the issue then this is a Male violence problem. Take it to the men.

We say no. And that’s that.

That's right, not many do. So when I'm startled by a recognisably male person next to me at the sinks, the probability is much higher that they have an intact male body than not. That's exactly what most women are not ok with.

How do I as a woman tell the difference between trying so hard to make the effort, and just a man out to leer?

Well, I'd be surprised if many men went through gender reassignment surgery just to have a quick perve.

You have all been told NO. That is enough.

It's not enough unless you can conclusively demonstrate that it's the majority of women who feel this way.

This isn't how changes are usually made. It's up to the people who want to change conventions to demonstrate that the changes are an improvement on the current arrangements. It's not usual to make the changes and then try to force the people who were happy with the way things were to prove that the changes are detrimental.

We have single sex spaces. If you want some men or all men to be able to use them you have to demonstrate that that would be better for everyone. Including women. Because we are actually people, too.

So if the women are such bullies maybe they should use the men's.

Yeah. Men are nice and lovely and wouldn't hurt a fly, we are repeatedly told when we don't want them in our spaces.

I'm not saying they should necessarily get unbridled access to women's spaces, but it's really disturbing to imagine a transwoman who perceives herself to be female, makes every effort to fit in and cause no trouble to the women around her, being photographed/exposed online, bullied by women who outnumber
her, and physically intimidated by burly men. That's pretty reprehensible no matter where you stand

How do I as a woman tell the difference between trying so hard to make the effort, and just a man out to leer?
As for bullied, oh please women, be nice. And who is bullying.
We would probably remove ourself from the space before bullying a man. That could get us killed.
So if the women are such bullies maybe they should use the men's.

Cheggers does like to invent studies. Never posts links to them though.

Why do some women being ok with unisex spaces mean all women should have unisex spaces?

Why not just have an additional unisex space?

Why do some women being ok with unisex spaces mean all women should have unisex spaces?

Why not just have an additional unisex space?

"It's not enough unless you can conclusively demonstrate that it's the majority of women who feel this way."

So if it is a minority, say 40% of women, then these 40% of women should lose their voice?

Only for maybe 0.25% of males getting theirs?

Yes, you sure are for "equality".

You have all been told NO. That is enough.

It's not enough unless you can conclusively demonstrate that it's the majority of women who feel this way.

Some studies have found a majority against, but there could arguably be a bias as many people are unaware of the issue and hence wouldn't have voted.

Politics and social media on the other hand seem to be quite pro trans with the insta banning of anything deemed 'transphobic' so the consensus amongst women isn't yet particularly clear.