Nice thread with lovely wishes for transpeople

I won't lie, I haven't properly read every post on this thread. Sorry!
In some ways, I do understand where you are coming from, OP. I do see the value of this for marketing purposes, to some extent, but feminism to me seems to be about speaking the truth.
This quote is correct:
When women and girls are told to be 'nice' it's a sure sign they're being fucked over.
My own understanding of this "debate" is incredibly personal. I haven't quite gotten to the point where I can break "Mumsnet Rules," FWIW, OP, I agree with your original statements. Of course no trans person should be hurt in any way just for being trans or otherwise. This doesn't mean any person is not their actual sex, though. After years of thinking about these questions, I've my own point of view. I do understand the desire to get lots of gender-critical women to post politically correct stuff, but anything to essentially solicit those will be counter productive.
My eyes are getting more open every day. While we have a lot of very classy feminists who are super forgiving and diplomatic, I really resent the idea that women keep having to bend over backwards to justify their very existence as the female of the human race. I cannot abide with the idea that women need to be extra compliant just to talk about their own real needs as biological females. I understand the political utility to do so in our male-dominated, queer-theory addled world, but I find it somewhat objectionable to ask this of other feminists. Many of these women have been in the "fight" for a very long time and really developed their thinking.
Please, can we not? I need that impetus even to get over my own impulses.

I don't think OP is a troll. I think OP is a person who posted a thread that got right up my nose - because, as anybody who knows me on here will realise, appeals to female socialisation are my absolute bugbear. So I said the thread got up my nose.

Simple as that. If it's not nice enough for some. Well. QED.

I'm not following.

The example is looking at anywhere in America except 2 areas and then posters weigh in outlining why they are wrong to not be considering those 2 areas.

It's a bit different to I'm thinking of holidaying in Yemen what do you think? In which case it would absolutely make sense to raise issues.
Or, I'm after general holiday advice and have a thread on holidays in general - in which case 'be warned... is dangerous' would make sense.

To me anyway the OP has said I'm trying a thread to do X and am not interested in Y, so poster chiming in with but Y but Y but Y is just like people who are other threads where OPs ask about A, rule out B and the posters continue to go on about B.

I feel pointing out not to holiday in a danger zone would actually be beneficial to an OP.

I'm not saying be some nodding fog. I'm just questioning why some on MN go on threads specifically to point out to an OP why their thread is pointless.
I also don't get when someone says 'hi I'm after holiday suggestions. We are doing America but we really don't want to do Florida or California. Does anyone have suggestions?' And people reply with 'but why not Florida? But California is awesome... why aren't you even considering Florida? What makes you so closed off to those states? You know you should really look into California'

I feel some replies on here are the feminist version of those types of replies.

I'll just nod along politely then next time shall I?

Then can't the principle of charity be applied?
E.g. If there's a thread on about 1 thing and there's nothing constructive to add / the only thing wanted to add is to tell the OP their thread is stupid, don't post.

Otherwise some of the replies on here are no different to people turning up on a thread about the royals to say 'but how about nobody cares OP. They're just some rich people being proper up by taxpayers. Nobody cares'.

I never get it on MN when people turn up on threads largely to tell the OP their thread is stupid.

I don't think I can post what I really think about this thread. I've got better things to do than worry if a random man can still have sex after his surgery. I couldn't give a toss about it.

It's a shame other posters couldn't see (chose to deliberately avoid acknowledging) what the OP was trying to do.

Huh? I can see clearly what the OP was doing.

Great posts ALittleBitofVitriol and cockBlocker.
It's a shame other posters couldn't see (chose to deliberately avoid acknowledging) what the OP was trying to do.

You may just have wished to be nice, OP, and I wouldn't want you to stop posting, but in the current climate of constant demands from TRAs playing on our female socialisation with emotional blackmail, to be nice and shut up or else die in a fire, your post hits too raw a nerve. You also have to realise that trying to dictate the contents of a feminist forum, especially when you're explicitly asking women to just be nice and not debate anything in the way you did, gets people's backs up. It's important that women don't feel they have to prove they're 'good mummy' before they're allowed to have an opinion. I don't want trans people to listen to me because I'm being submissive/nice, but because they recognise that women are entitled to have an opinion on issues that directly impact them. I want them to engage with our views because they're valid, that should be enough. You're suggesting that we should centre trans people on a feminist discussion board in case trans people are reading, but the transrational readers already know we aren't 'debating their existence' and as for TRA's, many of us have tried to be kind time and time again and still been told to f* off and die unless there is absolute submission to the TWAW doctrine, so sadly there's little to be gained here.

Sorry that the thread didn't go as you expected op!

The thing is, be nice is a stick to beat women down with. Especially on this topic. Engaging on the level of 'prove you're not a bigot' is conceding some false ground.

I can never be sufficiently nice for TRAs to actually listen. Believe me I've tried. I have come to the conclusion that the opposite is needed to actually get people thinking. A cold dose of hard truths is a stark comparison to the warm, glowy feting.

Every single uncomfortable conversation I've had with genderists gets derailed with anecdotes designed to induce guilt. Just be nice is code for just shut up.

So I'm sure you're a lovely person op, who had good intentions. But I won't get drawn into the prove a negative (not bigot) game.
My words and arguments stand for themselves and no, they're not all nice.

You are in transmit mode, not receive, which is preaching basically and will never encourage anyone to engage in any subject.

OP you really think misogynistic men who demand access to women's spaces are going to care one bit about niceties from women? They won't listen and they won't care. Just like YOU are not listening either.

Well, I’ve not read the other thread but on this one you’ve been defensive, I wouldn’t say you’ve appeared to actually listen to the points posters have made at all.

But your voice would be welcomed here if you actually bothered to sincerely engage.

Why don’t you try listening and engaging with the points posters have made?

Thanks to those who understood? Patronising much. Everybody understood. Just cos opposing views have been expressed doesn't mean people haven't understood you.