In defence of deadnaming

Not my specialism I'm afraid Vicky, it just makes me twitch when a lone lesbian poster gets multiple less than friendly posts from straight posters because they're not "lesbianing" right.

A poster called daimbars used to be subject to it all the time. She even posted her civil partnership to marriage conversion certificate once to try to defend herself as a "proper" lesbian.

The whole thing was remarkably uncomfortable. I mean I'm straight (I suppose, historically) and no-one ever brings up my sexual orientation to me in light of my views of transgenderism.

I don't know, perhaps I'm just harking back to bad experiences with daimbars, and some of the posts here are deleted now anyway, it's tough to know what's going on.

it looks remarkably homophobic from where I'm standing

Really? Who's been "homophobic"?

someone is arguing they shouldn’t be prosecuted for a crime because the person who did it ‘no longer exists'

Well that sounds undeniably loopy, I'll have a Google after kiddie bedtime.

And, well, if noone's asking for it to be a blanket rule then what's the problem? Presumably we all agree that there are situations where dead naming someone would be entirely gratuitous, unnecessary and motivated only by causing upset and asserting ideological authority. If a couple of court cases where this is the case are won, isn't this a good thing? That's not an acceptable practice for the press or any other authority to be engaging in. It doesn't stop a former name being acknowledged when it demonstrably IS necessary.

Oh, and did I walk in on some weird pile-on on Fox? Because it looks remarkably homophobic from where I'm standing, given that her sexual orientation appears to be in some way pertinent to the goings on, and she has said herself she's one for preferring a vagina.

No. None of my lesbian friends have penises or AFAIK prefer them to vaginas, nor do I, but they object profoundly to transphobes, especially straight ones, dictating the terms of lesbian sexuality to them.

Your vagina loving vagina-havers get upset because penis loving vagina-havers think that vagina loving vagina-havers have the right to say no to vagina loving penis-havers.

Gosh, what meanies they are eh?

None of my lesbian friends have penises or AFAIK prefer them to vaginas, nor do I, but they object profoundly to transphobes, especially straight ones, dictating the terms of lesbian sexuality to them. And if you were able to get your mind off dick for a fucking second you might have understood that.

THIS lesbian, her lesbian partner and all their many lesbian friends object extremely strongly to men claiming to be lesbians and straight people of either sex believing they have any fucking say in what constitutes a lesbian.

Foxy do they have lady dicks rather than penises?

It is rather difficult to get my mind off dicks and the dicks that own that own them at the moment, when they’re merrily invading women’s spaces.

Btw I don’t give tuppence about what you object to.

So graffiti on a train station is criminal damage but antipasta (pun intended) graffiti on the door of the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a hate crime.

Yes, which is why some people tried to claim sticking up the "Women Don't Have Penises" stickers was a bona fide hate crime, because criminal damage + "transphobic hate".

Was it Northern Ireland ?

Republic of Ireland. Where they have self ID.

As several pp have said, Fox, many of us have lesbian friends who object profoundly to MTF trans people and their allies "dictating the terms of lesbian sexuality to them".

So that's an impasse, isn't it?

I don’t think anyone seriously is asking, Rat - are they? Not as in someone proposing a change to legislation

What is happening is an indirect push - there’s a case somewhere where someone is arguing they shouldn’t be prosecuted for a crime because the person who did it ‘no longer exists ’. Was it Northern Ireland ? I’ll need to dig it out...

As for being a hate crime, there needs to be a crime first, and what makes it a hate crime is the perceived motivation. So graffiti on a train station is criminal damage but antipasta (pun intended) graffiti on the door of the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a hate crime.

It's not a wall of text. It's a wall of missing text! What do we think to the aesthetics?!

Is this on Twitter again or is someone credible actually asking for dead naming to be illegal?

Can you define credible please.

Hoping noone's going to have a hard time understanding me as I'm using the GC-favoured tactic of missing a line out between every sentence.

Lol.

Those GC feminists with their lines between sentences.

God damn them.

SophoclesTheFox, IME on here the possibility of engaging respectfully goes south as soon as you make it clear you disagree because people irrevocably assume the worst about you and treat you with contempt. It's the main reason I try to avoid FWR, and I can point you to other people explaining this on AIBU threads without snark.

I'm quite aware that my only audience is you (pl.) and I won't have any impact on you, but I do sometimes offer serious answers to your questions which I do put conscience and effort into, mainly to examine my own thinking and for the pleasure of constructing a considered argument, e.g.on bits of p5, p8, p10. These are ignored, deflected, disbelieved, dismissed with a variety of one-word epithets or e.g. told Life is too short so I only read your last paragraph rather than engaged with. My experience is flatly denied or ridiculed. My first post was greeted with the phrase "hard of thinking", shortly followed by "daft" and suggestions that I am masturbating.

This is not a respectful or mature atmosphere. "GC" is the overwhelming majority on here and it's your atmosphere. I'm told it's all my fault but here's the thing, there's 20 of you and one of me and I do concede doubt and uncertainty and nobody else does. You know that nobody is perfect so if people keep battering me with their refusal to concede the slightest scintilla of fallibility while telling me it's because what I'm saying is stupid, lying, incoherent or worthless (and I know I'm not stupid or lying and I check with others on coherency) then it just looks like attempted bullying.

I'm using the GC-favoured tactic of missing a line out between every sentence.

I've

never

done

this

before

so

am

upping

the

ante.

Could it be made illegal?

Simply give it as an example of hate crime?

Does someone want to make dead naming illegal?

Is this on Twitter again or is someone credible actually asking for dead naming to be illegal?

Could it be made illegal?

Good question.

If so how?

Another good question.

Hoping noone's going to have a hard time understanding me as I'm using the GC-favoured tactic of missing a line out between every sentence.

For clarity.

Could it be made illegal?

If so how?

Yeah, not without recourse to actually understanding what any of us is saying, though.

What you appear to be saying is very simple. That lesbians can have penises and you know quite a few lesbians (presumably with penises), who agree with you.

And you're annoyed that we don't disagree with all the other people who are trying to make deadnaming illegal, even though there aren't any other people.

And you have written loads of posts making out that you are enjoying poking feminists through the bars of their cage because it's a bit of a crack, and it's what smart people do.

Obscuring these things when you're called out is what is making you unintelligible.

Have I missed anything?

Enjoy icing your cake, maybe you should consider opening a small business?

The ability to erase a criminal past by making deadnaming illegal is very worrying.

The desire to do so - and arguing in favour of it - is indicative of someone who is devoid of empathy.

my mother in law gave me three of them...I recently lost a bunch of weight and I think she thinks I'm too thin now.

Bag of carrots makes me sound like a horse

Can anyone think of another widespread situation where someone is able to delete their past? The ONLY cases I can think of are either witness protection or released prisoner protection. Both exceptionally rare and needing specific case by case set up.

The ability to erase a criminal past by making deadnaming illegal is very worrying.

You must have a bag of carrots somewhere that can identify as chocolates.