In defence of deadnaming

Datun that all sounds very cloak and dagger, like, "bad things are happening, in the shadows, in far away lands...". I mean bullying and intimidation, there's too muck of that everywhere, but what are you actually referring to with regards to deadnaming? I keep asking and all anyone can tell me is "Winter is coming"

Yes, a transwoman who identifies as a lawyer has claimed that deadnaming them has led to the culprit being visited by the police. The dead naming was because the financial irregularities of their past were coming back to bite them.

The person was, indeed, visited by the police.

Almost the same thing, anyway.

wasn't there a case just recently where a chap wanted to not be deadnamed and so sent some officers around the house of a certain writer?

I honestly don't know, you'll have to tell me! When I first saw this thread I thought I must have missed some public call for dead naming to be illegal. I Googled it and everything, but the only thing that comes up is Mumsnet threads about how trans people totally want this and will stop at nothing! (Embellishment my own.)

I just wondered what the whole premise was really, seeing that I can't seem to find a single suggestion that anyone thinks it should be universally illegal.

Happy to be educated though.

And whilst you are at it, how can two men who identify as women, having anal sex, be lesbians exactly?

Oh, can we make this about straight people instead please? So a man and a trans woman having anal sex and being straight? It just makes me more comfortable and it amounts to the same thing.

It's just I've seen that be a concern before and I'm sure anyone worrying about it will be pleased to hear it's unfounded.

It's about bullying and intimidation. Things that are going on, right now. Way before anything can get to court, or anyone has the money for them to get to court.

Things are going on in parallel. Legal precedents in countries that have more trans laws, like suing women for not touching your penis. And protocols, like a famous and influential transactivist telling Twitter that the sex of the person giving them a security pat down is theirs to decide. And it needs to be someone of the opposite sex, purleese.

Fwiw I did skim the thread and all I can really ascertain is that despite no-one actually saying they want to make dead naming illegal you're all completely sure it's what trans people want, and that they're taking subversive and underhand steps to achieve it. Despite not actually saying it. Because then the game would be "up", right?

Posting without your italics, but wasn't there a case just recently where a chap wanted to not be deadnamed and so sent some officers around the house of a certain writer? You know, it being what a certain trans activist wanted and all? I mean if it wasn't illegal then why would the police race round someone's house to tell them to stop it?

And whilst you are at it, how can two men who identify as women, having anal sex, be lesbians exactly?

Don't be an ingrate now, Rat, it's the festive season!

Meh, I'm totally over it :( You can all have my share of festive cheer.

They dont want to explain...they just dont want to talk about deadnaming

I want to talk about dead naming!

Where exactly is anyone saying they want a universal ban on deadnaming? IS anyone saying this?? In what context?

Everyone here knows that when you get a GRC your original birth record isn't altered, right? So if the police or anyone else have reason to do a search the previous name and record isn't hidden and crimes are linked?

It's just I've seen that be a concern before and I'm sure anyone worrying about it will be pleased to hear it's unfounded.

The video of the raging transwoman in the toy shop is a demonstration of what happens if you hand legislation (or protocols) out willy nilly.

It's horrific. The individual absolutely lost it in a violently inappropriate way. The victims of their rage were cowed.

Making deadnaming (or misgendering) illegal is madness. But making it unacceptable is also just giving any bully on the planet more weaponry.

ou're all completely sure it's what trans people want

Ive obviously missed where the poll was taken and everyone on the thread said they were sure its what trans people want

I am not going to say it definitely didnt happen cos i do miss the odd (loads) post

Which, what with my sub-par reading comprehension and all

That's why we put plenty of line breaks in: to help you out. Don't be an ingrate now, Rat, it's the festive season!

No Rat, although clearly your comprehension skills are ‘pretty feeble’.
Read the whole thread, understand what is actually going on and take a step back from projecting.

Ah same old same old, must be a thicko, how ever did I make it this far in life?

Fwiw I did skim the thread and all I can really ascertain is that despite no-one actually saying they want to make dead naming illegal you're all completely sure it's what trans people want, and that they're taking subversive and underhand steps to achieve it. Despite not actually saying it. Because then the game would be "up", right?

Which, what with my sub-par reading comprehension and all, sounds like bonkers tin-foil hattery to me.

I am sure those arguing the point can explain it

They dont want to explain...they just dont want to talk about deadnaming

Oh shit i am so slow at typing!!!

Plus i was struggling with beagadors name

Good point beagador

And on point as the thread is about deadnaming

What does this have to do with deadnaming, which is the topic of this thread?

What exactly is the point of the term 'lesbian' if it can mean two men who identify as women having anal sex with each other?

I just don't get it. I am sure those arguing the point can explain it.

I keep hearing - whenever we raise the criminal possibilities that self id, allowing anyone who fancies it access to women's spaces, etc. - 'Ah, but that would be a crime!', as if that in itself stops people committing crimes.

The point is that making it easier for predators to commit their crimes by lowering safeguarding methods is not a good idea.

This.

wanting to turn politeness into sanctioned and compelled behaviour never ends well

No Rat, although clearly your comprehension skills are ‘pretty feeble’.
Read the whole thread, understand what is actually going on and take a step back from projecting.

No, look, nobody should be telling anyone else who to fuck. Everyone is entitled to exclude whatever they like for themselves, sexually. But no trans person and no cross-dressing man has condemned me when I've refused them as sexual partners or even tried to persuade me to change my mind. They aren't Riley Dennises, IME, they are very self-effacing, even the young ones.

Well that's great. But anecdotes and personal experience mean fuck all if you are arguing for a concept that undermines them.

As several pp have said, Fox, many of us have lesbian friends who object profoundly to MTF trans people and their allies "dictating the terms of lesbian sexuality to them".

So that's an impasse, isn't it?

No, look, nobody should be telling anyone else who to fuck. Everyone is entitled to exclude whatever they like for themselves, sexually. But no trans person and no cross-dressing man has condemned me when I've refused them as sexual partners or even tried to persuade me to change my mind. They aren't Riley Dennises, IME, they are very self-effacing, even the young ones.

The lesbians I know who try to impose their own criteria on other lesbians are quite often people who took 30 or 40 years to realise they were lesbians, i.e. they did not, contrary to people's insistence on here, "know whether they [were] lesbian, straight or bi". They are now trying to dictate the terms of the thing to, frankly, often more experienced people, with the zeal and/or insecurity of a convert and very little evidence in their pockets other than the nadirs of Tumblr and so on. How many of your friends have been personally cotton-ceilinged?

The lesbian question isn't just about lesbians. It's about sexual orientation, and is wholly contingent on whether you believe someone can change sex.

No one believes that. No one.

So it's a belief system, or more accurately, a bullying tactic. And whereas it might be used, largely, to bully lesbians, the principle remains that it can be used to bully anyone.

I, a heterosexual, can be just as easily bullied into a situation where I'm supposed to be attracted to a man with a vagina. It's unlikely, because men with vaginas, i.e. women, don't generally go about bullying people into sex.

Which is ironic, because the fact that I am unlikely to be bullied, relies entirely on the sex of the person who could do it.

So yes, I will continue to call it out for the domineering nonsense it is.

it just makes me twitch when a lone lesbian poster gets multiple less than friendly posts from straight posters because they're not "lesbianing" right.

Which ones are the "straight" ones in this "pile on" you describe?

No. You didn't

Gosh, some posters must be pretty feeble communicators then because that's how it read.

Oh, and did I walk in on some weird pile-on on Fox?

No. You didn't.