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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

In defence of deadnaming

606 replies

welshgendercrit · 28/11/2018 14:43

For ‘deadnaming’ is just a Newspeak word designed to demonise the telling of historical truths. Not satisfied with seeking to control contemporary discussion and attitudes, now trans activists and their allies (all institutions, in essence) want to control the past itself. History. No way. The past happened, it was true, and we should not allow that to be erased and forgotten just to make some people feel better about themselves.

Yet again spiked (which I never used to read) has written a good, hardhitting, sensible article on transactivism.

www.spiked-online.com/2018/10/11/in-defence-of-deadnaming/

OP posts:
NonExistentFox · 23/12/2018 17:46

To be honest, fox, you're not the best communicator in the world and I'm still relatively unclear over your overall position in the trans debate. Because you muddy the waters with nonsense about sucking strapons.

I think you're simplistic and overly sure of things. The spiritual cock only came into it to illustrate variety aka "nonsense". People chose to focus on what they found ridiculous instead of the salient point. The salient point is that lesbians aren't a block vote who agree with you and plenty of them don't see any inconsistency in sleeping with trans women. And large numbers of lesbians, including ones who are very unlikely to sleep with anyone of the sex class that produces sperm, object profoundly to your beliefs and to you citing them as victims in your arguments.

I know you like facts, well, that last point is a fact, and if people had been willing to acknowledge it they might have been able to get back to their thread. I've argued with a LOT of believers and cult types: Creationists, Flat Earthers, Seventh Day Corbynites, NRAs, climate change deniers, Trump and Brexit fantasists. They often seem to have trouble comprehending quite basic sentences and understanding that people who are not mad, bad, ignorant, or indeed in a cult, could possibly disagree with them.

So it's possible that I'm "not the best communicator" and all the supposedly excellent answers I've ever written were read or marked by idiots or telepaths, it's quite possible I've gone downhill since then and I could certainly do with an Edit function on here. But it's also possible that some of you could do with a bit of self-awareness when it comes to your dire warnings about cult thinkers. Like you (plural), they're convinced they're shrewd observers of reality and everyone who disagrees is talking nonsense, like you they seem to consider their obsession to be the most pressing issue in any sphere that intersects with it, and like you they tend to have their own little phrasebooks of insults like "waffle" "pomo" and "TRA" to throw at you when they just can't understand why you might have a different opinion.

OlennasWimple · 23/12/2018 16:34

Me too, Vicky

In many cases it is absolutely right that former names are shared strictly on a "need to know" basis, and that there are penalties for those breach the rules that exist.

To be honest, it rather rankles that there is a criminal offence of "deadnaming" a trans person where the discloser knew the information in a professional context, but not (as far as I know) for disclosing information about an adopted person.

Sharing the birth name of a person who was adopted because of an abusive family can put the adoptee and others in direct danger. It's no-one's business in most cases that Julie Smith was born Chardonnay Jones, but there are some instances (such as completing a DBS check, applying for a passport or visa) where Julie has to declare that she was named Chardonnay at birth

VickyEadie · 23/12/2018 15:47

So, have we had any further thoughts about deadnaming?

I'm still convinced that safeguarding everyone demands that no-one can erase their previous names.

Datun · 23/12/2018 15:40

I did address this earlier but if you have difficulty with the idea of an XX woman seeing things differently from you then you can just carry on supposing whatever confirms your biases.

To be honest, fox, you're not the best communicator in the world and I'm still relatively unclear over your overall position in the trans debate. Because you muddy the waters with nonsense about sucking strapons.

VickyEadie · 23/12/2018 14:24

Anyway, deadnaming.

NonExistentFox · 23/12/2018 14:20

WTFIsAGleepglorp. It's not actually a particular joy of mine and I couldn't understand it either when I was young and homophobic but the San Franciscans on the C4 documentary were very eloquent on the subject and then I got to know some real life lesbians.

Then personally VickyEadie I think it's arguable that you're stretching the definition of "exclusively attracted". There's also the lesbians who prefer straight porn, there are people further along the Kinsey Scale than me who surprised me with that one. I'd ask some of them to come and tell you themselves but the consensus is that I have a strong stomach to be able even to argue with the regulars on these threads and tbh I'm not particularly proud of that fact.

Because it is so hard these days

Again, it's not always complicated. I have some personal reservations about claiming a description I don't always feel 100% entitled to but I'm a very indecisive person and I don't wish to extend these reservations to other people.

To be fair, they could be a lesbian with a penis, and be using up Kleenex like it's going out of fashion.

I did address this earlier but if you have difficulty with the idea of an XX woman seeing things differently from you then you can just carry on supposing whatever confirms your biases.

WTFIsAGleepglorp · 23/12/2018 14:11

Deadnaming is acceptable as a 'formerly known as' thing.

Any offender who wants to change name or gender can get stuffed.

sackrifice · 23/12/2018 14:07

That as well!

Other soft tissues are available.

VickyEadie · 23/12/2018 14:07

To be fair, they could be a lesbian with a penis, and be using up Kleenex like it's going out of fashion.

That occurred to me a few minutes ago.

Datun · 23/12/2018 14:04

To be fair, NonexistentFox doesn't know if they are lesbian, bixesual or whatever because NonexistentFox can't quite work it out. Because it is so hard these days.

To be fair, they could be a lesbian with a penis, and be using up Kleenex like it's going out of fashion.

sackrifice · 23/12/2018 14:03

This started off as a discussion about deadnaming and now it's about NonExistentFox's lesbian fantasies.

To be fair, NonexistentFox doesn't know if they are lesbian, bixesual or whatever because NonexistentFox can't quite work it out. Because it is so hard these days.

Mariotta · 23/12/2018 13:52

What happens if a spiritual dick encounters a vagina dentata?

Spontaneous combustion?

VickyEadie · 23/12/2018 13:45

If someone has the occasional fantasy about a sex they don't want to go anywhere near IRL are they bisexual?

I think you answered this yourself in this bit: "about a sex they don't want to go anywhere near IRL".

Therefore, no, they're not bisexual.

MadgeMidgerson · 23/12/2018 13:45

this is the way it always goes

  1. Angrily refer to the tiny tiny proportion of people who are born with disorders of sexual development
  1. ??????
  1. Therefore Barry in IT is actually Barbie, and must share a toilet with you for her own safety YOU BIGOT
WTFIsAGleepglorp · 23/12/2018 13:35

Wow.

This started off as a discussion about deadnaming and now it's about NonExistentFox's lesbian fantasies.

Way to derail a thread there.

NonExistentFox · 23/12/2018 13:32

I personally have never had such a discussion with any of the lesbians of my acquaintance; however, I also know that 'fantasy' isn't the same as 'real life' in terms of what people indulge in with regard to sex.

Well then we may have misunderstood each other over what "exclusively" means. If someone has the occasional fantasy about a sex they don't want to go anywhere near IRL are they bisexual?

NonExistentFox · 23/12/2018 13:24

What. The. Fuck. Have I just read

Whole new vistas of human variety, huh?

What criteria are you using to come to this conclusion? Given that it's so complicated.

It's not always complicated. All the indications are that I'm of the class that produces ova and I'm perfectly comfortable that way. Ergo I'm a woman.

Lesbians enjoy having their strap on (s)ucked!

I'm sorry, is this news to you?

VickyEadie · 23/12/2018 13:21

I also know that there are women who get turned on by imagining a cock of the non-detachable variety even if they don't want to go anywhere near one IRL. So they have some attraction to the concept

I personally have never had such a discussion with any of the lesbians of my acquaintance; however, I also know that 'fantasy' isn't the same as 'real life' in terms of what people indulge in with regard to sex.

OlennasWimple · 23/12/2018 13:17

What happens if a spiritual dick encounters a vagina dentata?

Qcng · 23/12/2018 13:15

Fox
You do know porn isn't real.

Qcng · 23/12/2018 13:14

^Sucked oops

But fucked works.

Qcng · 23/12/2018 13:13

Lesbians enjoy having their strap on fucked!
Christ above. Porn has really fucked up the minds of a certain generation.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/12/2018 13:08

Possibly, but as far as I can tell without having gestated a child, I'm not

What criteria are you using to come to this conclusion? Given that it's so complicated.

Qcng · 23/12/2018 13:06

There are lesbians who prefer dick but stick religiously to women out of principle

What. The. Fuck. Have I just read Grin Grin

NonExistentFox · 23/12/2018 13:05

That some people like using 'toys' in their sexual activities doesn't make them bisexual.

Yes, this is my point.

fox, you do know that a strapon isn't actually a cock, don't you?

Yes, and I also know that there are women who get turned on by imagining a cock of the non-detachable variety even if they don't want to go anywhere near one IRL. So they have some attraction to the concept while being what I'm perfectly happy to also call 100% lesbians.

Under your system you could be a bloke.

Possibly, but as far as I can tell without having gestated a child, I'm not.

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