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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

In defence of deadnaming

606 replies

welshgendercrit · 28/11/2018 14:43

For ‘deadnaming’ is just a Newspeak word designed to demonise the telling of historical truths. Not satisfied with seeking to control contemporary discussion and attitudes, now trans activists and their allies (all institutions, in essence) want to control the past itself. History. No way. The past happened, it was true, and we should not allow that to be erased and forgotten just to make some people feel better about themselves.

Yet again spiked (which I never used to read) has written a good, hardhitting, sensible article on transactivism.

www.spiked-online.com/2018/10/11/in-defence-of-deadnaming/

OP posts:
ChewyLouie · 26/12/2018 20:41

The more Fox posts his ridiculous ‘contributions’ the clearer it becomes why people who approve of deadnaming are on the wrong side of history.

Ereshkigal · 26/12/2018 20:31

They further expose this ideology with every single word.

Mariotta · 26/12/2018 20:28

Well, if the world is run on identity uber alles, who has the structural power to elevate their identities over others? Oh. Not women. Especially not the working class ones. Colour me shocked.

FloralBunting · 26/12/2018 20:26

Yes, I rather ruefully note that the bad people in fox's worldview are the women who say no and assert firmly exclusive sexual boundaries to men and 'women with penises'.

The women who say they are fine with penises, even if they never actually want to play with one get a pass, because their boundary is sufficiently grey.

Mariotta · 26/12/2018 20:09

How does one prevent Fox's brave new ultra libertarian and not progressive at all world from defaulting to extant power structures?

Oh. That's right. One doesn't. That's the point, as it always is with male sexual rights.

Bowlofbabelfish · 26/12/2018 19:40

nope

It does though. Women are adult human females. All the women, regardless of colour or religion or class or any other social distinction. All women.

Men are not women. Humans cannot change sex. It’s very important to be able to use language that means something, in law , science and in daily life.

And also in public records and history. We cannot make deadnaming illegal. It’s a predators dream.

FloralBunting · 26/12/2018 19:32

Women who play dungeons and dragons can only pull the ladder up on other women if they roll the dice a certain way, though.

I think the influence of the magical arts on the general ability of women to oppress other women is a neglected field of study in the modern age. We need a new Malleus Maleficarium.

Ereshkigal · 26/12/2018 19:29

Wizard Dungeons and Dragons women, Lego Harry Potter women,

Interesting. So what is the precise difference between a Lego Harry Potter woman and a Lego Harry Potter man? You know, if I wanted to categorise them?

Do the Lego women "identify" as women?

FlyingOink · 26/12/2018 19:17

I think the gist is no class analysis is possible or even desirable as anyone can oppress anyone on any one of a thousand potential axes, all of which are equivalent in significance

and just like that, structural barriers to liberation disappear

Well I for one am delighted and grateful.

FlyingOink · 26/12/2018 19:15

If "woman" doesn't mean people of the female sex then presumably straight men in bad wigs are a subcategory of women and can oppress actual women and do that ladder pulling up thing. Right?

MadgeMidgerson · 26/12/2018 19:15

I think the gist is no class analysis is possible or even desirable as anyone can oppress anyone on any one of a thousand potential axes, all of which are equivalent in significance

and just like that, structural barriers to liberation disappear

hooray I guess?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 26/12/2018 19:14

My dad always used female as a bit of an insult

So usually someone would be a lady...rufus the sweets are by the lady over there

he might have used woman.....rufus, women usually lose when arm wrestling men

And then female......some stupid female just cut me up on the roundabout

Now im gonna use the word female all the time, at least on the fwr board

FlyingOink · 26/12/2018 19:13

Hang on, so "nasty women" are mean to "dungeons and dragons women" and this means women are mean?
What groups of "nasty women" have "pulled the ladder up" and in what way is this linked to their womanhood? Surely these "nasty women" are equally nasty to dungeons and dragons men too?
So really this is a "women have been told they are less valid, but some of them are mean" argument? I.e. not a valid argument at all? Some disabled people are horrible, does that invalidate the injustices disabled people face, because you can paint one or two of them as "oppressors"?

MadgeMidgerson · 26/12/2018 19:11

right so trans lesbians can thus oppress cis straight women?

working class women can oppress wealthy posh women with inherited titles?

v interesting tell me more

NonExistentFox · 26/12/2018 19:09

Nope.

Ereshkigal · 26/12/2018 18:56

What's a "woman"? Does it exclusively mean people of the female sex?

NonExistentFox · 26/12/2018 18:54

Oh, RTFT, Ereshkigal.

could you clarify who is meant by ‘women’ in the first clause (women are a paradigmatic etc)

and who are the subcategories of women they might oppress?

‘Women’ means All Women and "subcategories" means any subdivision into which any of us may categorised, e.g. brahmin women, bisexual women, immigrant women, married women, unemployed women, Wizard Dungeons and Dragons women, Lego Harry Potter women, and any combinations thereof, in situations where relative status can be exploited.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 26/12/2018 18:53

Good point eresh

Ereshkigal · 26/12/2018 18:51

I'm not sure you can even define yourself as "bi" as that is another transphobic term.

Ereshkigal · 26/12/2018 18:49

Under your system you could be a bloke.

That may very well be factually true but evidently not how Fox would self define! Who knows. Burble burble something something authentic identity.

Ereshkigal · 26/12/2018 18:46

I'm presuming spiritual cock is a fancy term for the reason why some lesbians enjoy having their strapons sucked, but clearly I need to read up on the whole subject because personally I don't know whether I'm lesbian or bi under your classification system.

Missed this gem. If you need to ask, I imagine you're bi. If you knew, you'd be a terrible transphobe.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 26/12/2018 18:37

Hah. Good luck with that.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 26/12/2018 18:36

So you're a lesbian

you may have to provide your definition of lesbian

Ereshkigal · 26/12/2018 18:31

Oh "we"?

On another thread you described yourself as "gay", Fox. So you're a lesbian?

Ereshkigal · 26/12/2018 18:18

DARVO away, MadgeMidgerson. A lot of gaslighted minorities get it and stand in solidarity with trans people instead of pulling the ladder up after themselves.

This projection you're doing is very typical of TRAs.