Red Flags and Radicals: A Detransitioner writes

Kay the Proof is in the pudding. They don‘t do the detransitioner research themselves, they raise hell when someone else does it. Instead, people like Serrano widely publish it is all a myth, studiously ignoring people with first hand experience. There is a nice youtube video of a deteansitioner ‚in response to Serrano‘ which sums it up, really.

but your assertion that transgender professionals " do not want research" is a bit strong.

Is that what she said? I thought she said that transgender advocates? Which is a very different thing, IMO. Did I miss something?

meant to add; the recent programme " when mum becomes dad.. etc" fits with what you are saying; like anyone else I sat and watched through my fingers when Felix and some others were on, mentally shouting "don't do it.... wait..... you sound as if you are making a mistake... too soon....."

I think you’ll see it isn’t my science, so best try destroy the science and not me.

Feminist4, as I mentioned previously, I had body dysmorphia as a teen that was debilitating, made me depressive and what not. My parents - and doctors - refused to consent to irreversible surgery until I was 18.
I am now glad they did, even though I was mad at them then.

Oh, and did I mention that I spend much of my childhood and twenties ranting about how paternalistic medicine is for not allowing me to get sterilized, knowing for a fact I did not want kids, ever? I was sure I didn‘t want kids well into my thirties. Changed my mind around 37, got pregnant, and that was that.

I did worry I might not be able to get pregnant, having waited so long. But then, at least I had long been an adult making those decisions leading to childlessness, not a child with no grasp of what life would hold.

deepwater solo;
re research; I do try to find areas of agreement, and all that, but your assertion that transgender professionals " do not want research" is a bit strong. I have NEVER heard them, or anyone on what you might call " my side", say or write anything to that end.

And we do discuss de-transitioners, a lot. Hence the things I was able to report above about "de transitioners wot I have known or known of". I'd say that many trans people are more keen to think that people mostly de-transition because of the " attitudes of society" than to accept that people can be just plain conflicted about it all, all their lives. It is hard to accept that one cannot ever get one's ducks in a row. We all like to imagine that we are entirely rational animals.

Well I for one am completely convinced by Feminist4's subtle and well reasoned arguments! I'm impressed by how nuanced and persuasive they are! I renounce my terfery forthwith!

I don't read much science

You could have stopped there, honestly.

I don't read much science against supporting transition, except in infamous bogus websites such as transgendeetrends However,
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

Precisely, kesstrel. I feel like including a basic intro to research methods class at some point on high school would do the public understanding of and ability to interpret the research that ends up in the public domain a world of good.

Yeah, "I don't like the look of that researcher" just makes you look paranoid and as if you're worried that you'll only get a result you're happy with if you get to make sure whoever does the research is biased in favor of the outcome you're hoping for.

They may not be unbiased, or may have an agenda.

This is where the nature of science and scientific methods comes in. Science doesn't work by only allowing those who are "unbiased" to do research.

It works by: 1) following accepted scientific methods, which must be described openly in scientific papers, including a section on the potential limitations of the research; 2) scrutiny and criticism of those methods by other scientists, pointing out possible flaws; 3) further research to try to correct those flaws; 4) attempts by other scientists to disprove the hypotheses proposed by the first set of scientists, again with full disclosure of methods. Rinse and repeat, until verifiable facts emerge.

This is why science and scientific methods actually work: because science, as a method, is self-correcting. It accepts that humans have biases, but provides a method to compensate for those biases.

Why are you worried about hurricanes when earthquakes also happen, you earthquaking loving monsters?

What are your experiences of young people being allowed to take unreversable steps? Can you give me your own experience of this, or are you an armchair fighter, dabbling in other people's battles, that don't affect you and yours.

Frankly, Kay the ‚agenda‘ of a researcher is a non-argument. It is not like fervent pro- transition advocates would be prevented from doing research. But that is not what they want. They want NO research, because the mention of detransitioners alone is akin to heresy.
Whatever the agenda of a researcher, if it makes them choose biased methods, this can always be unmasked and critiqued, as the methods must be disclosed in the paper. Else, the data speak for themselves.

Feminist4 someone who is prepared to be sterilized to transition and is underage most probably simply cannot grasp the full consequences. This is why Youth is generally so ‚brave‘ in all kinds of situations. And this is why parents are the ones who make the high stakes decisions.
It is quite telling how some parents abdicate their responsibilities while making it all about the ‚brave choices of the child‘.

I do agree that the current wave of transitioners will probably be a medical scandal in the future. No-one seems to be able to provide any facts about it, beyond the idea that there is ( internet driven? ) contagion.

But; research? yes, we need it. But done by who? Done how? Over what period, and with what parameters? The argument that people have tried to do it, and have been rejected on grounds of " political correctness" sounds initially plausible ,and is believed implicitly by many, but it tends to look less convincing when one looks at the CV of those who have wanted to do it. They may not be unbiased, or may have an agenda.

That might even be said of James Barratt's "Transsexual and other disorders of Gender Identity "( 2007); after all, as a consultant psychiatrist and lead practitioner of the NHS's largest Gender Identity Clinic, some would say he has an agenda. It is his career. Though the book is edited by him, not written by him, so contains varied viewpoints.

As does "Trans Britain" Ed Christine Burns ( 2018) again, a number of different voices .But who is objective?

Calling for research? yes, good. It IS needed. Something worrying is happening. Assuming that research is being silenced , or is easy to do? Easy to say,not so easy to prove.

Someone who is prepared to be sterilised in order to transition is not just dabbling in a fantasy so they can rape your daughters in the female changing room. Your concern for their wellbeing is phoney and not welcome. It is similar to parents who force their gay children to be straight. Fight your pathetic anti-men battle in a way that doesn't hurt and upset vulnerable people.

“Derision and scorn “ = disgreeeing with me

Also, I don‘t think parents who have their children sterilized are particularly brave. I find it quite cowardly, actually, to hide behind the children and ‚their‘ brave decision. As if parents didn‘t have parental responsibilities.

Oh and show me the ‘derision and scorn’ in what I wrote.

Well, if there was a tangent you could have picked from my posts feminist4, you have found it. Way to go in failing to engage with the substantive issues and minimising the distress caused to trans people by the loss of their fertility...

Feminist4 Yeah, no idea what issues people have with, say, the Nazis, ridding the gene pool of all kinds of nonconforming children by sterilizing them. It is not like they could never have children, after all.

But although it may sterilise it doesn't necessarily prevent them from having children. But what a brave thing to do, which in my mind shows the need for our support and understanding, rather than derision and scorn.