I was one of the transactivists on the channel 4 documentary, I regret what I did — this is why

stomping on olive branches is not going to get us anywhere.

If this is a genuine olive branch I would agree.

It does, however, have overtones of being in line with the plan to have a more acceptable public face, as discussed in the meeting that someone attended covertly.

It will be interesting to see if more people step forward or even undertake to listen to the WPUK-arranged talks etc.

Your brain isn’t fully developed until you are twenties but you are legally responsible at 16.

Being responsible doesn’t require you to be ‘fully developed’.

You are not a kid who’s brain suddenly switches to adult-mode at 25. People know damn well that threatening women in a stairwell or planning to set off a smoke bomb in a crowded room is wrong. It’s is absolutely not true that these thugs are kids who do not know what they are dong is wrong.

I hope that the blog post is investigated and that those who planned a smokebombing are prosecuted. I don’t care if they are 25 or if they are only 16.

Kind of disappointed as I only saw the first half of the thread title and I thought it’d be an Ask Me Anything

You're in luck! Head on over to Twitter:

https://twitter.com/elmskid/status/1066660871739531264?s=20

Certainly that's true for me, everybody. And I'm not necessarily proud of feeling that way. You are quite right, stomping on olive branches is not going to get us anywhere.

But as an aside, if they had let off a smoke bomb, and I had been in that room, it could have killed me

I’d have probably had a meltdown.

Smoke bombs are incendiary devices. I’ve posted links to a report on their use at sports events and concerts. You can get two years for using them at public events.

I really do want to be magnanimous and see this as a step in the right direction, but I must confess that my overwhelming reaction is 'thanks for making our point about male socialisation, aggression and entitlement so beautifully'...

How old are most of us here? I'd guess the average age of the people on this thread is probably in our 40s, is that fair?

How old is Esther? Early 20s? This person is not our equal in terms of life experience or having had a chance to develop their intellect, they're a child in comparison. I'm not saying we should excuse the kind of behaviour on display at the Jam Jar - far from it.

But we should be mindful of the dynamics here.

After a couple of months of arguing with arsehole TRAs on twitter, it suddenly dawned on me that many of them probably weren't that much older than my own children, particularly the ones with really dogmatic thinking. It was a sobering thought, and it changed the way I deal with them a bit.

(Reply to your earlier comment)

CaptainKirk Fair comment, and it could be a bit of self-publicity. My concern is that if it is a genuine awareness that their attitude was wrong, and it's met with hostility rather than 'wait and see', then we risk undoing any progress. Put it down to female socialisation on my part if you like.

I agree everybody It's very hard to go against the grain and admit that what those around you are doing is not right.

Remember the TRA's are told that we want to exterminate them from existence and hate is built up from that. You can't build hate on "They are trying to keep what's left of the mental health service in place for young trans people", after all.
Lot's of people are puppeted and mob mentality takes over, this person has realised that and is at the very least expressing that the approch isn't right.

Ereshkigal when Esther refers to challenging 'big name t*rfs' my guess is that Esther means Raquel Rosario Sanchez, the brilliant bilingual writer for Feminist Current and many other outlets - and Esther's fellow student at UoB, what a lovely show of collegiate camaraderie to call her that - and Heather Brunskell Evans. RRS and HBE both gave talks organised by the UoB students' Free Speech Society
*
Thanks severnbore, appreciate the information.

This person also spoke quite a bit during the Q&A.

Ah. I remember them from watching Heather's talk.

Kind of disappointed as I only saw the first half of the thread title and I thought it’d be an Ask Me Anything 😳🍿

But, the fact that they are basically saying "sorry for how I tried to silence you last time, I'll try and silence you differently next time" makes me doubt the authenticity.

According to reports of Healther Brunskell's most recent event, this person was standing up against the TRAs who tried to disrupt the meeting and engaging with the debate in the Q&As.

That a person who was responsible for such violent actions has had such an about turn is something to be celebrated IMO, even if they're still learning.

We need to help make it easy for young people to leave this cult. It's good that Ester is being so public about their change of heart, so other young activists can see there is a way out.

I really do want to be magnanimous and see this as a step in the right direction, but I must confess that my overwhelming reaction is 'thanks for making our point about male socialisation, aggression and entitlement so beautifully'...

I agree with those who say that anyone who moves to a democratic position should be acknowledged as being positive. Esther didn't have to write that and if activists are beginning to recognise that threats and intimidation are not the way to go, then everyone wins.

Yes, absolutely. I wonder if Esther means the kind of nonsense that TRAs did to Heather Brunskell Evans last week, or whether Esther would sit and wait their turn to ask a "difficult question".

Facebook shows me that Ester is a member of the group that put the event on.

Someone GC on Twitter says Ester stood up against the TRAs says:

This person was in the audience on Wed at Bristol Uni where Heather spoke. I was there too. They spoke up when the TRAs disrupted the talk before it had begun. Told them to shut up and stop. This person also spoke quite a bit during the Q&A.

I didn't agree with most of what they said, but there was at least a willingness to listen and be reasonable. And also spoke against medicalising kids. Wasn't being provocative, just wanted to engage.

This person is young and they do seem to be going through a process of self discovery that's heading in the right direction. They're acting like much less of a prick than they were at the Jam Jar and do seem to be speaking up for free speech within their community.

I think we really do need to remember that many of the TRAs are young people and will be growing and learning. They've had some heavy indoctrination, especially around suppressing ideas they don't like, and they need to be encouraged if they're moving in the right direction.

Goodness knows I was an arsehole as a teenager. I grew out of it.

Whether Esther will or not - who knows. But making assumptions and shoring up our trenches isn't that productive IMO.

Not saying we should treat Ester with kid gloves - saying to Esther - Excellent, that's a great start, now what about x y & z - and do you realise you're still fucking mansplaining?! seems like a good start to me. Or even, for those who feel strong enough Yes, let's go for that pint.

But saying - no, I reject anything you say, you can't change is closing the door on young activists who may see the light as they get older.

Yes TRAs are acting like abusers, but so many of them are young and have been groomed by this abusive cult.

If they show signs of moving away from it, then we need to encourage that IMO.

I wonder what Esther's parents had to say about their behaviour. I suspect they'd mentioned that they were an activist and protester. I doubt they were told the full extent of the thuggishness. Now I guess the cat's out of the bag.

Consequences, Esther. It's called "consequences". Good luck getting a job after you graduate.

It's a step in the right direction, but that said words are very easy actions are harder.

Well I think that took courage, it's a step towards open discussion.

"Esther" seems to be 20 I would cut them some slack at that age. However no violence. No intimidation and allowing everyone to get a word in edgeways in debates is usually the best course of action no matter how strongly you believe in things.

I would not recommend anyone at university having a very public profile about university activism activities which may break the law (conspiracy to use smokebombs is probably some kind of offence even if hyou don't let them off) if you want any knid of reasonable stable job afterwards. I suppose if there is a different legal name of the passport that might help with confidentiality.

Someone of 20 of any gender is lkely to wory how their hair looks so I would hold that against them although it certainly would not have sat well with many feminists including me - never mind the hair, what do the words say is what counts whether you are male, female or anything.

It also looks like Esther is part of the Free Speech Society that hosted the Heather B-E talk.

I'm really not being funny here, but what the fuck is the 'Free Speech Society' doing, not kicking out a masked person, who has threatened people, admitted they were planning smoke bombs at a women's talk event that featured trans people?

Raquel Rosario Sanchez' talk is here8rosariosanchez.wordpress.com/2018/10/22/discurso-derecho-de-las-mujeres-a-la-libertad-de-expresion/ and Dr Brunskell Evans' talk is here: www.facebook.com/womensvoicesmatter/videos/212990382802742

I suspect that Esther was waiting to see how much Esther feautred in the C4 doc before making this move. Afaik Esther had not previously been identified from phone footage of the JJ. It reads like the 'confession' of an abuser who says 'I'm sorry, I didn't realise that hurt you'.

^^ This. With a side-helping of, "But you shouldn't have provoked me". However, I shall magnanimously try out a different stance in my re-education programme that will, slower than I like, conform you to my will and perspective.

Ereshkigal when Esther refers to challenging 'big name t*rfs' my guess is that Esther means Raquel Rosario Sanchez, the brilliant bilingual writer for Feminist Current and many other outlets - and Esther's fellow student at UoB, what a lovely show of collegiate camaraderie to call her that - and Heather Brunskell Evans. RRS and HBE both gave talks organised by the UoB students' Free Speech Society. I was lucky enough to get to both. As regards Esther's claim of asking them difficult questions; Esther asked RRS something about 'both sides as bad as each other' to which RRS rather brilliantly replied simply 'No'. I'm not sure what Esther asked HBE and neither was she, she had to ask Esther to clarify. Esther seemed to be making the argument beloved of middle-aged AGPs that children should transition in order to be spared the terrible pain they went through. HBE strikes me as a deeply ethical, thoughtful woman. She replied that we have to talk about the reality of what happens to children who transition - loss of sexual function, sterility etc. She added something in the lines of no one should assume they know what's best for children based on their own trauma iirc. I suspect that Esther was waiting to see how much Esther feautred in the C4 doc before making this move. Afaik Esther had not previously been identified from phone footage of the JJ. It reads like the 'confession' of an abuser who says 'I'm sorry, I didn't realise that hurt you'.

But, the fact that they are basically saying "sorry for how I tried to silence you last time, I'll try and silence you differently next time" makes me doubt the authenticity.

Actually, it's precisely that which makes me wonder the opposite - that, and how young they look - if it was a calculated lie, you'd think they would be a little more aware of how badly the rest of the article comes across, or would have had someone else vet it to make it more conciliatory.

However, I don't think there's any way of knowing for sure, and it actually doesn't really matter - the obvious blinkered and bizarre thinking in the piece isn't a good look either way to anyone reading it objectively.