Allow prostitution in care homes

As far as I am aware, one of the recognised issues for prostitutes is that the nature of the work does start to impinge on the whole self, on self-esteem and sense of identity.

The term ‘traded woman’ is meant to bring people up short, to get away from the ‘happy woman choosing to engage in fun sex’ narrative.

I never sold myself, I never sold my body, I sold an hour of time for an agreed-upon activity or two.

OK. And what about the rest of the prostituted women?

All legal prostitutes to wear rubber gloves and hazmat suits! Healthy and safety in the work place must not be scrimped!

Yes, sex worker isn't right at all - workers have many rights and responsibilities, none of which are recognised for prostituted women.

I stick with prostituted women - making it very clear what they are being traded for.

That's reducing an entire human being to their genitals.
I never sold myself, I never sold my body, I sold an hour of time for an agreed-upon activity or two.

Anyway I'm hiding this thread now because the mumsnet echo chamber is coming into effect again.

I was thinking only this morning that there needs to be another word for prostitute, one which makes the nature of the transaction more clear.

‘Sex worker’ is far too anodyne and implies that everyone selling sex has the same level of choice.

‘Traded female’ or ‘traded male’ is my idea so far.

"If it were opened up, the only women involved would be ones through choice"

"The only ones..."

But then

"and ones who weren't would be guaranteed more chances of being heard, believed and helped"

"and ones who weren't...

Contradicted yourself within seconds there.

and that's just from illegal violence - what about work H&S? The laws around body fluid contact and disposal make prostitution all but impossible - or are you saying that it's OK, that the woman doing the job should be less protected than a cleaner employed to wash the sheets after?

Or safety of customers - what insurances are prostitutes required to have under a regulatory framework? My dental surgery's chairs are covered, and wiped down between clients - and we're fully dressed at the dentist - what hygiene processes are prostitutes required to follow to ensure a similar level of safety for their clients?

Regulating and normalising are the safest routes. If prostitutes are respected, they have more safety.

Do you have any evidence of this?

The leeds zone seems to have made life more dangerous for any woman in the area, the german mega brothels have resulted in women being exploited on a massive scale for ever-reducing prices, and even Amsterdam is pulling back on the red light district.

I don’t think anyone believes that prostitution can be completely eradicated. The general radfem position is pro Nordic model.

Tbh the prostitution yes/no argument is one different people will have different opinions on and as I said upthread probably not appropriate in a care home anyway.

It's a head in sand stance to take to imagine you'll ever get rid of prostitution as a whole. The more you try to stamp it out, the more consenting women will leave, driving it further underground so the only people participating are men with money who aren't afraid to go to prison and women who don't have a choice. Regulating and normalising are the safest routes. If prostitutes are respected, they have more safety.

Regarding do it for free, I am- as I said upthread, I was a pro sub. Now I'm in two d/s relationships. But ironically, my older boyfriend, the one in his mid 60s, was one of the reasons I stopped playing for cash.

Anyway. This prostitutes in care homes essentially boils down to one's own view of prostitution. I don't think it is some vast, alien, pitiable concept because I've been there. I know women are exploited, but I don't think the solution is to make it more illegal. If it were opened up, the only women involved would be ones through choice, and ones who weren't would be guaranteed more chances of being heard, believed and helped. And none of them would be hired for clients by care workers because that still wouldn't be appropriate.

Oh, it’s the ‘I enjoy sex work so it’s fine, even though for every one of me there’s a million other people, mainly women, who are being exploited and violently raped’ argument again. Well forgive us for putting the safety of those other million people/women above one person who by their own admission has the freedom to choose whether they are exploited or not. Mememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe. And please forgive us for giving a shit about those people, mainly women, who don’t wish to be props or facilitators in other people’s sexual wants, or facilitate in the exploitation of others.

A quiet wank with a do not disturb sign on the door, fine. Please can you pass me that bag/box, oh and please can you put the dnd sign up on your way out? Fine. A vibrator is made of plastic, so that isn’t rape btw. Please can you find me a prostitute? Erm... no.

A woman I know who’s a care worker was telling me a couple of weeks ago about a man who lives in one of the care home flats who crawls around the floor naked and intentionally shits all over the floor and just leaves it. She said he’s always wanking to porn on the telly when they go in, and he doesn’t stop, even after being asked. A lot of the care workers refuse to work with him now because of his behaviour. I bet he’d like to have a prostitute arranged for him.

Micke to continue your last paragraph -- especially in light of the fact that the average age that boys start watching porn is 10 years old.

If it's such fun, do it for free, in solidarity with the vast majority of prostituted women who are co-erced into it.

No-one is stopping you, or anyone else having sex. I'm just saying, allowing a women's body to be rented for sex should be as illegal as allowing that woman's organs or blood or eggs to be bought, of for her to be rented to incubate a baby.

And since porn is generally depictions of people being paid to have sex, I feel it falls under the same umbrella. Go to the front page of the biggest porn sites, read the video titles, see how healthy you think that is for women, men and society in general to have people spoken about and abused like that, for men's pleasure.

Got a funny feeling of de ja vu...

My opinion is that only those folk who consider the inside of a woman's body to be a "workplace" could support anything like this.

‘I’m alright Jack’ prostitution edition.

No.

But re harassment- could it be so if it were discreetly used? Ie not left all about the place but in a closed drawer when room accessed by carers? Door shut for privacy?

Noone is trying to prevent people doing whatever they want to do privately. The article was about workers being required to facilitate residents’ access to & use of pornography, facilitate masturbation and use of sex toys etc. I think that might constitute sexual harassment at work, and that workers should not be required to participate/facilitate or be exposed to sexual activity in any way in the course of their employment. Key word here being ‘required’

Did many of you actually read the guidance? The case study about a resident wanting a prostitute was actually refused. There is guidance on what is and isn't OK. This isn't and the request to be helped with masturbation was also refused with an investigation into the community care worker who did help the same patient for money!

Rixera

My vagina is addictive and should be made illegal apparently. I'll start billing myself with that shall I, Rixera whose cunt is as good as crack.

Not what I said at all and you know it.

Nor is facilitating elderly men accessing prostitutes anything like allowing consensual relationships between couples. But you know that, too.

I personally think that could be resolved better by more regulation & respect for sex workers.
Thank you for expressing your differing opinion respectfully.

But re harassment- could it be so if it were discreetly used? Ie not left all about the place but in a closed drawer when room accessed by carers? Door shut for privacy?

Rixera, I suspect most posters are very familiar with the ‘happy hooker’ line you’re taking, and I believe that is your genuinely held view and that you may consider yourself a feminist. Feminism isn’t the Borg, we don’t have to all agree all the time.

I find the ‘happy hooker’ line an incredibly selfish position to take - prostitution overwhelmingly disadvantages and abuses women - poor women, working class women, immigrant women, women who have experienced domestic violence, sexual abuse, serious mental health issues, homelessness and substance abuse issues, as well as vulnerable young (mostly) gay men and transgender people worldwide. Prostitution facilitates normalisation of rape and sexual abuse, and ultimately upholds a culture where sex is a right to enforce and a commodity to purchase, rather than a privelige to share with consensual partners. I believe that’s wrong, and I believe your participation, at whatever level, facilitates the suffering I’ve described, whether you like (or accept) that or not. I don’t believe any woman, any human being, should be purchasable, full stop.

This is why many of us do not accept any level of prostitution as reasonable, no matter how much a small number of happy hookers might enjoy being a prostitute.

Back to the topic of the thread - surely workers cannot be required to be exposed to pornography in the workplace, that should constitute sexual harrassment and I’m sure a good lawyer could make a case for that.

Possibly women don't ask because society constantly tells us our sex drives are wrong and shameful.

@VickyEadie

Well first of all thank you for the compliment. My vagina is addictive and should be made illegal apparently. I'll start billing myself with that shall I, Rixera whose cunt is as good as crack.

Anyway, in what way is an elderly married couple wanting to share a bed comparative to rape? A person wanting to masturbate equivalent to rape? Sure the inflammatory headline referred to prostitutes (also not rape but let's not argue that circle again) but the wider issue was not sex workers, but sexuality.

A do not disturb sign does not an incel make.

Rixera are you on a wind up? How many elderly women have you come across who want to men to help them access porn, help with masturbation, use male prostitutes?Maybe it’s because women don’t need to coerce men into being involved with sexual needs? It’s not just about the residents in a care home, it’s about workers rights to maintain their boundaries around sex.A do not disturb sign is inadequate, this has greater implications in the day to day working if a care home than someone simply popping into a room for half an hour !