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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Gendered" Insults

34 replies

lydiamajora · 25/11/2018 05:19

I put the title in scare quotes due to the fact that the connotations of the word "gender" have changed since I first heard the term, but "gendered insults" are those which rely on reference to sexed anatomy (ie, cunt, twat, bitch, dick, prick, etc).

I am one of those obnoxious people who cares way too much about words. I think they say a lot about us, even when (or hell, especially when) we do not intend them to. At the same time, I do not think the use of specific slurs is in and of itself indicative of underlying bigotry. In reality it seems to be a good indicator of societal - rather than personal - values.

The best way I have figured out to explain my own position is this:

I am an atheist. And yet, in the middle of the night, if I get up to visit the toilet and stub my toe on the corner of the nightstand, I have been known to emphatically swear "Goddammit!"

Not because I, secretly, in my heart of hearts, really do believe in a god, and that if I beseech him appropriately he will smite the offending piece of furniture. But because I have grown up in a culture of people who have religious beliefs and who use "goddammit" as one of the buffet of things you can say when you do something like kick a chair leg at o'dark-thirty in the morning while trying to go have a pee.

So my question is this: how do you feel about these kinds of insults?

I notice that some feminists on this board (and elsewhere) have a negative view on these slurs. Others use them fairly liberally (plenty of women calling people cunts and twats) while still holding feminist views.

Disclaimer: I am American, so my visceral reaction to the word cunt is pretty different from Europeans', though gay men seem to have made it their mission to "reclaim" slurs which were never theirs to begin with (with cunt being first and foremost) and are thereby increasing usage.

Not trying to be goady - I obviously have my own opinions, but I am interested to hear what others believe and why they believe it.

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MrsTerryPratcett · 27/11/2018 05:21

It's a mixture of history, usage and intent. A friend in the UK saying "alright cunt?" might be problematic WRT history but not usage or intent.

However I've had men mutter things like "bitches better be careful" at my all female team (nights in a pretty dodgy environment) and known it was meant to intimidate, shock and scare us. And put us in our place. Pure misogyny, albeit a less 'serious' word.

Danaquestionseverything · 27/11/2018 05:08

It's a nasty slang word for vagina. Was used in the 70's, thought had died out. Looks like some bogan idiots are trying to revive it.

Bogan = Oz version of trailer trash (sans trailers).
Not sure of UK equivalent.

I better quit while I'm ahead. I could be here all night if I attempt to translate Aussie slang., besides DS2 just back from school.

lydiamajora · 27/11/2018 04:47

... I have literally never heard the word "moot" before (other than as in "moot point"). I mean, I have fingers and can Google, but beyond actually looking it up I would have no idea what someone who used it was talking about!

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Danaquestionseverything · 27/11/2018 04:37

Here in Oz cunt has some strange usage. It's almost a term of affection between male friends e.g. "Hey, cunt, long time no see" (accompanied by manly hugs). Whereas "mate" can be used aggressively. It all depends on the tone of conversation.

I used to be hugely offended when someone used "the C word" but over time have just shrugged it off. Perhaps because I spent a lot of time around tradies, who though fling it about among themselves with great abandon are quick to step in if someone uses it to refer to a girl/woman. I have used it myself when totally pissed off, the fact that I do is usually a signal shit's about to hit the fan.

One word that is really gross (70's throwback) is moot. Ugh what a horrendous word. A tradie we know has a decal on the back of his ute that reads " Diesel soot gets the moot". Can you believe that?
DH was telling me about it and was just disgusted. He and a few friends were like "Mate, (see above usage) the 70's called and want their chauvinism back". More disgusting is this guy (at the time) had a pregnant fiancée. Imagine how she must have felt. Ugh.

lydiamajora · 27/11/2018 04:04

EarlyWalker - I meant to add, I agree that people often use words in ignorance or apathy of the original/root meaning, which is why I do my best to reserve judgment about someone's character based on the obscenities they use.

Still, I do think it is indicative of cultural misogyny that so many of our put-downs are related to being compared to a woman or her genitals, no matter who they are aimed at.

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lydiamajora · 27/11/2018 04:00

Teitetua - I make a point of having my go-to insult be "asshole", followed by "shitweasel" Grin regardless of sex.

I would have to agree with Bertrand, EarlyWalker - the recipient of the insult is not what determines offensivness, to me. The word "faggot" in the US is used against mostly heterosexual men; that doesn't make it not homophobic. Same with the word "dyke".

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TeiTetua · 26/11/2018 15:20

On the other hand, you rarely hear a woman called "arsehole" or "bastard". Or is that just a load of bollocks?

BertrandRussell · 26/11/2018 14:55

I don't think cunt is misogynist because of who it's aimed at-I think it's misogynist because of its history.

EarlyWalker · 25/11/2018 09:19

Would you be able/willing to explain what your line is for some insult being misogynistic
It all depends on the context. I hear men and woman called cunts, twats, dicks, pricks, I don’t think they’re exclusively aimed at woman (or men) As I said the only one I hear exclusively for woman is ‘bitch’ and that’s often said between friends and not derogatory because she’s a woman.
My issue is with words that make someone seem inferior because of their sex, such as bossy (never referred to boys), bubbly (only woman also), diva etc.. and phrases like ‘man up’ ‘grow some balls’ that imply men are stronger than woman.
A lot of people use phrases or slurs without knowing the meaning. I often see people here refer to people as ‘drinking the kool aid’ which derives from the massacre at Johnstone, I don’t think people that use this phrase are making light of the death of nearly 1,000 people. It’s just a phrase that in modern day language is used and people use phrases without necessarily knowing the origin of them as they are so common in everyday language.

HumourlessFeminist · 25/11/2018 09:04

I don't generally use gendered (or religious) insults.

It doesn't leave me with many swear words to choose from TBH, particularly when I'm driving 😄😠.

Notevenmyrealname · 25/11/2018 08:54

I think the only gendered swear word that I would only associate with only women is bitch, but have always felt the word bastard is a fairly equal strength male alternative so have never really been offended by its use.
In all honesty, from a historical view, I think it’s interesting and very telling of our society that female genitalia is considered so much worse than male but the words themselves just don’t offend me in that way as I don’t think I’ve heard them in that context. If I’m honest I’ve heard men called twat and cunt more often than women and until recently, didn’t realise that people’s objections to it were because of its perception of being misogynistic, just that it is one of the strongest words you can use. Again that clearly says something deeper about our society and how we view female genitalia as being the worst thing ever, but I’ve never really witnessed that much thought going into insults when they’re being thrown around, so I tend to take them at face value. So many words have problematic origins that are routed in sexism. Just the fact that as a species we are MANkind or huMAN, and half the population is feMALE, tells you all you need to know, but you can’t remove every gendered word from the dictionary. A lot of people don’t like swearing generally so it’s not something I would do in polite company around people that I don’t know that well anyway.
I don’t think I’ve ever used the word gay as an insult, although most people I know wouldn’t think twice. That’s always sounded a bit wrong to me. However, if I’m honest, other adjectives used in a gendered way annoy me more, particularly ones used around children such as bubbly, bossy, pretty v boisterous, assertive, handsome. The ones used for girls are either used in a slightly negative way or emphasise a more frivolous aspect of their character. It’s just like marketing. Gendered marketing towards women and men is patronising but we’re all grown ups and can make our own decisions, however, when it’s directed at children it can completely shape their world view and potentially could be much more damaging.

JellySlice · 25/11/2018 08:50

I find it deeply offensive to have the fundamentally female external organ, the warm giver and receiver of pleasure, the amazing conduit of new life, used as an insulting term for nastiness.

The male equivalents OTOH do not seem as offensive because they relate to selfish or thoughtless behaviour. Reducing a person to their penis seems a very good analogy for them being lead by their own desires.

lydiamajora · 25/11/2018 08:31

Earlywalker Would you be able/willing to explain what your line is for some insult being misogynistic? To me, the fact that our (arguably) worst insults are based on comparing someone to females/female parts is pretty indicative of cultural (though, again, not necessarily personal) misogyny. Men get called pricks/dickheads, but those are not used in the same venomous, degrading way that cunt is.

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AmericanHousewifefan · 25/11/2018 08:19

Noteven my mother used to do the Les Dawson thing Grin

AmericanHousewifefan · 25/11/2018 08:17

I understand where you are coming from OP. I'm atheist but because I grew up in a catholic household where my parents went to mass every week until they were too ill to do so, I and my brother were involved in a church youth group for years and years and I had faith for the first 40 years or so I still use terms like "thank God" without even realising it.

On the cunt/dick thing I call 2 (horrible spoilt self-centered ) people I work with prick or dick but would rarely say cunt. I obviously have been influenced to think dick or prick is ok but cunt is reserved for the worst behaviour. What does that say about me and/society?

EarlyWalker · 25/11/2018 08:12

And the word bossy, when are little boys called bossy? ‘Oh he’s a born leader’ ‘he’s very strong willed’ but no, my daughter was just ‘bossy’

BertrandRussell · 25/11/2018 08:11

Do you think there are reasons that people might not want to use the word "cunt" which aren't prudish or "pearl clutching"? Is there anything political about it for you?

BellsaRinging · 25/11/2018 08:11

I swear a lot (try to reign it in at work) but I won't use gendered insults, because to me they are un-feminist. It's not just the word, but the history of it's use and the way it's still used. Cunt is the worst because when I have heard it it's only been used in extreme anger and with the intention of insulting and demeaning the woman (and it's always a woman) it's aimed at. I don't think twat is used in the same way now (not that I will use it). It's more used like 'dick'. The other one I really hate is 'bitch'. Only ever heard about a woman (or at a stretch a gay man).

EarlyWalker · 25/11/2018 08:11

I hate the c word, I don’t even know why I just really hate - I’ve heard it said to men and woman though so i don’t see it as mysogonistic.
I only ever hear woman called bitches but me and my friends say it in general context ‘ah you bitch you finished the wine’ sort of thing.
All the others I see as interchangeable between sexes.
None of the words you’ve mentioned would I personally find as especicially insulting as they refer to gender. What I do hate is ‘man up’ or ‘grow some balls’ said to women or even men.

BertrandRussell · 25/11/2018 08:09

"Have you ever heard a man described as bubbly?"
Another time I got completely pilloried on here was when I objected to a police officer who was killed in the line of duty being referred to by her superior officer as a "bubbly girl".........

Notevenmyrealname · 25/11/2018 08:07

Sorry, I wasn’t directing my comment at you - I had people my age that I know in mind when I said that - and I would never assume that other people should have the same opinions as me anyway.

My mum is in her 60s and would never use it but then she doesn’t tend to use the word fuck either unless she’s quoting someone else, and then she does that thing (that I always associate with Les Dawson) where she mouths it.

lydiamajora · 25/11/2018 08:02

*I mean, I don't hear adults call things gay almost ever, and certainly they don't refer to themselves and others using racial slurs as my peers in school did. Gendered slurs seem to be the exception.

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redexpat · 25/11/2018 07:59

It's not just insults. Other adjectives too. Have you ever heard a man described as bubbly? Also difficult and bossy are words that are supposed to tell us that we are breaking gender norms and should stop.

I quite like the word cunt for strength of feeling but it says something about society that our worst insult means female genitalia.

lydiamajora · 25/11/2018 07:59

Same; I'm not a child, I will use the actual word when discussing it.

I find the argument that insults like cunt/twat are now divorced from their sexed origins enough to not be so offensive only comes up in one or two other examples. The one I can think of off the top of my head is from when I was in school and calling everything "gay" was the done thing for edgy teens. Of course, when questioned, anyone would tell you that calling something gay just means stupid; it isn't homophobic at all, you weirdo.

I don't hear it much amongst adults anymore, but "cunt" and "twat" are experiencing something of a renaissance in the states.

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BertrandRussell · 25/11/2018 07:51

I'm not squeamish and I don't use the expression "the c word".

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