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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New Zealand wants to introduce Self-ID - article by Meghan Murphy

65 replies

Scrumplestiltskin · 24/11/2018 22:32

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/10/30/new-zealand-green-lighting-gender-identity-ideology-policy-without-considering-consequences/
A few excerpts:
Official Information Act requests have revealed that there are currently approximately 33 trans-identified males in New Zealand prisons, and that 18 are in for violent crimes, including sexual assault. Seven of these individuals are are currently housed in women’s prisons (though none have sexual assault convictions). Corrections has admitted that, since January 2017, at least six assaults have been perpetrated by trans-identified prisoners in women’s prisons.
And
This year, Malcolm “Morgana” Platt returned to prison after grooming a 10-year-old girl for prostitution. Platt had already been jailed in 2009 for raping a 16-year-old who later took her own life. Rory Francis, who identifies as a woman, is also currently incarcerated and has been sentenced three times for raping children. Pierre Parsons is under supervision, since he continues to harass young girls after kidnapping and raping a 12-year-old in 1995, and stealing her clothing to wear. In 2017, Cameron “Cinnamon” Hakeke and Alex Seu, who both identify as women, were sentenced for violent crimes: Hakeke kidnapped a 19-year-old woman before dragging her into a flat, cutting her hair and tasering her. Seu pleaded guilty on three charges of indecent assault and two of sexual violation, one of which involved Seu dragging a drunk man into an alleyway and pushing him into a brick wall. In 2014, “Shelley” Williams pleaded guilty to three charges of assault, following prior convictions for violent crimes in 2000, 2009, 2010 and 2011. In 2010, Hendrix “Hina” Tutaki assaulted a pregnant woman and a “transwoman” named Glen Cooper pleaded guilty to wounding with intent to injure.
And
This discourse has impacted women’s sports in New Zealand outside women’s gyms. Anton “Kate” Weatherly competed as a man in mountain biking competitions until he decided to compete as a “woman” in January, winning the elite women’s division at the national championships near Wanaka in February. Prior to his “transition” (which includes hormone therapy — testosterone levels are still acknowledged as indicative of sex in sport) he had competed in grades lower than elite, usually finishing mid-pack. Gavin “Laurel” Hubbard represented New Zealand in women’s weightlifting in the 2018 Commonwealth Games, having already taken gold in the Australian International women’s weightlifting championships in 2017, when he lifted 42 lbs more than Samoan silver medalist Iuniarra Sipaia.
[...] HRC advisor for sexual orientation, gender identity, and sex characteristics Taine Polkinghorne said:
“There is no valid reason to exclude trans women from competitive women’s sports. Laurel is a woman — not a man masquerading as a woman to gain medals or glory…
… Participation in sport and physical activity is a human right.”

This is all so terribly worrying and depressing, especially in light of the silencing of women across social media ramping up, lately. They are genuinely trying to crush our ability to even protest! It's become sincerely Orwellian, and it's frightening. What can we even do? Sad

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crsacre · 25/11/2018 17:00

NZ is odd. Adjusting for population,
—there are far more transwomen in prison than in the UK
—the NZ equivalent to Mermaids/GI (Rainbow Kids) receives more funding.

medium.com/@gckiwi1234/erasure-kiwi-gays-and-lesbians-are-being-erased-from-their-own-movement-81e1ac8152dd

FermatsTheorem · 25/11/2018 15:38

Well, sensationalist in the sense that it is drawing attention to sensationally terrible things being done to women's rights...

I mean, if you think it's mere "sensationalism" to object to a male-bodied sex offender being placed in a women's prison, does this mean you're okay with it in general. That objecting to the principle on the grounds that occasionally something bad happens (and focusing on that occasional event is "sensationalism") is wrong, because for the most part things work out fine (as in, the transwoman imprisoned for fraud or shoplifting merely makes their fellow inmates feel uncomfortable, rather than actually attacking them). So how many males in women's prisons do we need before we're allowed to object? Can we not talk about the Karen Whites of this world, because there's only a handful of White's victims and it's therefore "sensationalism"?

Are a few male-bodied individuals in women's sports okay, despite the fact that these distinctly mediocre sportspeople (mediocre when competing as men) suddenly start scooping up medals when allowed to compete in women's sport?

CartoonCat · 25/11/2018 09:40

I do think that article is sensationalist though and has taken statistics and quotes out of context.

Ereshkigal · 25/11/2018 09:39

I bet this stuff is easier to get through in smaller countries

YY. Hence Ireland, Malta, Portugal.

Yarnswift · 25/11/2018 09:37

So a bit like Scotland? Done in the backrooms and the populace unaware?

I bet this stuff is easier to get through in smaller countries

CartoonCat · 25/11/2018 09:34

I mean it’s not a conscious thing at all, rather something people haven’t really heard about so haven’t formed opinions on yet.

CartoonCat · 25/11/2018 09:33

I’m kiwi. Tbh I think the trans-debate just hasn’t mainstreamed at all yet so hasn’t been thought through. If I wasn’t on MN I probably wouldn’t have really heard about it at all.

Yarnswift · 25/11/2018 09:26

I love NZ. I lived there for a couple of years. This is so depressing :(

I’m actually quite surprised as well. I know living somewhere for a bit only scratches the surface of a culture but it never seemed like a particularly ‘woke’place to me. It seemed very wedded to reality.

MN Kiwis- is the whole country into this or is it an urban thing?

FermatsTheorem · 24/11/2018 22:46

It's not a human right to compete in women's sport. There's nothing to stop these people competing in men's sport after all.

But what a grim catalogue of individuals in prison. And when put together with the post one of our New Zealand contributors made the other day about the sky high prevalence of sexual violence against girl children and teens in NZ paints a very depressing picture indeed.

VickyEadie · 24/11/2018 22:42

You might have the 'right' to participate in sport with others of the same sex.

Scrumplestiltskin · 24/11/2018 22:41

Absolutely, UpstartCrow
Honestly I don't see how participation in sport is a human right, personally. Certainly not professional sport at least. And most definitely not a right to participate in the opposite sex's category.
Plenty of people have health conditions that prevent them from participating in sport at a competitive level - imo being transgender should be treated the same way.

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Serfisafleur · 24/11/2018 22:38

No one is denying anyone's participation in sport, keeping sport segregated by sex. Surely it's a human right for women to have women's sport.

It wouldn't surprise me if NZ were the next to implement selfish-ID. After all, they legalised prostitution.

Ereshkigal · 24/11/2018 22:37

Mckinnon also believes it shouldn't be a requirement to drop testosterone level to compete against women. That is the endgame here I think.

UpstartCrow · 24/11/2018 22:34

''Participation in sport and physical activity is a human right.”

Dr Rachel McKinnon has been pushing this line on Twitter, while sidestepping the point that it is not a human right to win by any means necessary.

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