New Zealand wants to introduce Self-ID - article by Meghan Murphy

I have to say, I was astounded at the lack of outcry when Laurel Hubbard won the Australasian champs. That was my first glimpse of a transwoman competing in a female competition and it just seemed so obviously unfair.

I wonder if the response would be different now? Things have certainly blown up in the last couple of weeks with Rachel Stewart's article. Maybe more people would feel able to say "hold on a second..."

"Participation in sport and physical activity is a human right.”

And it's always so interesting that denying the physical advantage a TW has over a woman, and denying that the right to participate in sports, is part of that "human right".

Posted our letters today. (Illyria42 is my sister.) Gave the draft to my daughter to critique as she worked as a legal researcher and policy advisor for the previous government. She sharpened our complaints about the lack of proper procedure for the introduction of self id.
We will see what happens.

Hi, my sister and I have just drafted a letter to Jacinda Ardern, NZ Prime Minister expressing our concerns re self ID. We are sending copies to Deputy PM Winston Peters Leader of the NZ First Party as the sponsor of the Bill is a NZ First MP. A copy will also go to Green Party Co-Leaders James Shaw and Marama Davidson. We hope this elicits a response before Christmas.

We are born male or female and in some rare instances not clearly one or the other. That is an immutable fact. Adults who change their gender identity can have a certificate which lets them lead a life consistent with that new identity. Changing their birth certificate is a deception. Not putting down a child's sex at birth because of gender ideology is madness. I cannot believe how easily this nonsense is being pandered to. If one says these things out loud one is vilified. I don't care how adult men and women choose to lead their lives so long as their choice does not infringe upon the rights of others. Why women in Britain and New Zealand are so concerned about the self-identification matter is because it could open the door to sexual predators accessing our hitherto female safe places. The fact that our lawmakers don't seem to have grasped this is extremely frustrating. The hostility towards the women and some men who have dared to point out it might be a good idea to halt proceedings and really look at the implications of such a move is shocking. In New Zealand we are celebrating a 125 years since Women's suffrage which makes this hostility all the more disheartening. Well, I will be writing to the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern to tell her exactly how I feel, especially as I am in the early seventies and a life long feminist, supporter of gay and lesbian rights. And don't even get me onto the whole Toilet issue!

Thanks for all the guides folk. Off I go down more rabbit holes. I am still utterly utterly gobsmacked that all this is happening.

Hi sorry I’ve Name changed :) - this discussion is mostly occurring on Twitter. If you go back through their timelines you will come across it.
But, Just in case you missed it, here is Rachel’s opinion piece this morning in the Herald.
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12166957

whistler where were those articles? Am interested to read them

I do think people are waking up a little - me included. I was very much in the same camp as Louisa Wall etc but am slowly starting to see the issue in sharper focus.

I think it’s because these issues are so new to many of us perhaps?

Agree that the pride parade has also focused the issue a little more

I find twitter the best Yeahnahyeah - Renee Gerlich who I think actually wrote the article linked to above has very bravely, and often at great personal cost, led the fight back from the very beginning and is well worth following.
twitter.com/renee_jg

NZTwitter is often dominated by the woke Wellington twiteratti but in the last week or so gender critical views seem to be gaining some traction. The kerfuffle over the Pride Parade seems to have bought the issue to a head and journalists and columnists like Rachel Stew, Fran O'Sullivan and Whena Owen have all been accused of being transphobic in the last few days for not backing away from this issue and accepting the diktat of wokethink.

Thanks for starting this thread, Scrumplestiltskin. Another GC Kiwi feminist signing in.

I am concerned by how unenlightened many NZ women are on this issue, and was so surprised by Louisa Wall's recent remarks.

I truly hope you get some sort of sort of positive response to your enquiries, OtepotiLilliane42.

One of Australia's GBTQ campaigners being called out on his public commentary re: the NZ legislation:

tasmaniantimes.com/2018/11/transforming-tasmania-and-rodney-croome-spreading-fake-news/#comment-223477

So glad to see other GC feminist Kiwis here.

Louisa Wall (Labour MP) was on National Radio this morning explaining to the presenter that TERFs were feminists who did not agree that trans women were the same as biological women, and that they were abusing the human rights of trans women by stating as such. I was really hoping the presenter (Guyon Espiner) would ask her to explain this and explain how trans women were the same as bio women but he obviously didn't.

I am so glad there are more of us out here. I was a member of a feminist mothers' facebook group but i left because they were staunchly in the "trans women are women" camp and if anybody posted anything questioning this (for example questioning Laural Hubbard) they were flamed and told they couldn't possibly be a feminist.

Thanks scrumple for the links. If you don't mind PMing me some FB group info i would be grateful but also understand if you are wary!

Thank you yeahnahyeah for your comment. In the 1970s during the heady days of Women's Lib there used to be something called consciousness raising, in which women met in groups and educated themselves about the evils of patriarchy. A bit tongue in cheek there, but this is what is happening now I suppose on this issue, but with the added advantages of social media to spread the word. The MPs here in New Zealand need to informed about the growing disquiet over the Self ID issue. Surely it is not not too much to ask them to look at the speakupforwomen site as a first step towards understanding why this needs their attention.

The bill has its second reading in the House in the New Year, so perhaps we can flood the Prime Minister's office with letters asking for Self ID to be held over until the public is given a chance to have a say.

Whistlergrey or other kiwis, can you point me in the direction of some NZ sites where there are GC discussions?

I’m a kiwi and there’s been nothing much here apart from a joke in a Herald on getting out of dog registration fees by having dog self identify as a cat. All my info is coming from here and I have been sharing my views with friends

I’m in NZ the way the debate has been controlled is shameful. The proposed change covering self ID was introduced later in the legislative process, Tracey Martin the Minister in charge of this refuses to be interviewed, a labour MP was caught referring to ‘fucking Terfs’ and the green MPs mirror the same pro self ID line or you’re a transphobic nazi as UK Greens.

I would say that in the last few days it has felt as thought the gender critical line has gained some traction.

Tasmania is a small, conservative entity too. Easily groomed behind closed doors.

Thankyou OtipotiLilianne for showing me a way forward (contacting MPs etc) and also for expressing our concerns so well.

I have to confess that I have been lurking for a while on the Mumsnet feminist chat board, and very much enjoy the humour and sharpness of the contributors. Like some on this thread I only discovered some weeks ago that we were likely to get self identification thrust upon us here in New Zealand with absolutely no thought given to the possibilities of predatory males invading women's spaces under the guise of 'being' women. I remain amazed that no one on the Select committee saw the implications of this move.

In response to this poor legislation I have emailed my local MP, who happens to be an old friend from many years ago, so I know that he will take my concerns seriously. He is also the Minister of Health in the current government, with a young family, so I asked him to especially look at the alarming rise of children being referred for gender change medication, with all the horrendous consequence for their future health.

I have also signed the speakupforwomen petition, which I found on Mumsnet, so thank you to the person who posted it. I used my real name, which some who left comments didn't feel comfortable doing, for fear of possible retaliation. Which is a sad commentary on the shutting down of free speech in New Zealand.

I gritted my teeth and emailed the opposition spokesperson for Women's Affairs ( I am staunchly Labour) to raise my concerns on this ill-thought out legislation, and I intend to email our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern this week with my concerns. She really does need to listen, as do some of the coalition women MPs who have labelled all women who dare to raise their voices on this matter as hateful bigots.

After that I am going to have a rest from being in a permanent state of anger and despair and try to focus on something more positive!
I am 71 years old, have always been a feminist and supporter of Lesbian and Gay rights, and have no animosity towards the transgender community, but it includes troubling elements now who have hijacked debate, and they need to be called out.

I apologise for this long post, but it will be my only one on this subject, unless I get some positive responses from my MP and the PM, in which case I will post again!

I only found out about the whole trans issue a week ago, and have pretty much been on this site learning, and aghast, ever since.

I'm a kiwi too, and agree with Yarnswift that there is not much awareness in NZ yet. Our Prime Minister is woke as, and self ID is in the works.

That list of crimes is sobering.