Not sure I am on board with feminism any more.

You really think boys struggle to find positive role models and stereotypes. Really?

Feminists should prioritise women but need to think more about positive messages to boys to counterbalance the negative ones they are so good at spreading.

The negative message you seem to be blaming feminism for spreading, seems to be the statistical facts that men are disproportionately and overwhelmingly responsible for violence and assault, including on women. This has been the case for thousands of years, so I fail to see how feminists have caused it.

Feminists should prioritise women but need to think more about positive messages to boys to counterbalance the negative ones they are so good at spreading.
I think that’s something men should be doing.
Why are women - and specifically feminists- expected to fix everything?

I'm deeply concerned for men who think they're mistreated by feminists.

It tends to be men who don't respect women as equals and feel threatened.

This is ridiculous. There was plenty of male violence before feminism. Men need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming women for what they do. Young disenfranchised men are being violent for the same reasons they always have, not because they are suddenly seeing messages calling men out for their bad behavior.

It's not an image problem.

It's just that men don't like to look at the mirror.

How about making men responsible for eachother's behaviour.
Call out on abusive behaviour.
Don't excuse men in power or your friends.

Then women won't need to complain.

Feminism aims to break down gender stereotypes for both boys and girls.

Us talking about male violence in feminist spaces isn't the overriding image that boys will be getting. They will be getting the boys are heroes, boys are tough, boys are sporty, boys are smart, men are leaders messages.

Men are vastly more represented on our screens and in our books. And not as violent perpetrators of violence against women.

I didn't read all replies, but yes, you have missed the point.

I'll be happy when men don't present a negative image of men.
Stop harassing women. Stop killing women. Stop abusing women. Stop male privilege.

It's not up to feminism to make you look better when men as a whole don't treat women like equals.

Drylce,

The problem with your message is that, if boys grow up lacking fundamental self confidence, they are more likely to develop into examples of ‘toxic masculinity’.

Feminists (NAFALT) might say but men are responsible for men, not my job or business.However, I don’t think this splitting of sexes is helpful, especially considering that the vast majority of parents are 1 man + 1 woman still.

Everyone should be giving positive messages to everyone else, especially children. What is far more open to debate is what these positive messages should consist of...

Awild- themyth was being ironic in her comment - that much was pretty bloody obvious - yet you took her literally.

If you think that it's the role of feminism to put up a good fight for men, then you couldn't be more wrong.

Let me ask you a serious question. Do you think it's the role of black activists to fight for the rights of white people?

Indeed Neurotrash, Robert Webb's book is a positive message for boys ( I think, I am only half way through) and certainly feminists in here promoted it so much I assumed they had shares in it

As I see it, the message of feminism is about equality. At the moment, in an unequal society, that could (if you were slightly disingenuous...) present as favouring the building up of girls and women. In actual fact, a lot of the things feminism fights for I think would benefit men - for example the equal pay fight is pushed as being pro women, but if it eventuated men would have equal time with (and responsibility for) their families, and be liberated from the expected pressure of being sole breadwinner.

What does make some feminists (including myself I must admit) roll their eyes a bit is this idea that feminists must expand to prioritise men. Feminism came about because women felt so passionately about their liberation, men are perfectly able to create their own version and make t-shirts saying boy power if they so desire.

And we do not live in an equal society. If boys want examples about how "they can", and reinforcement of their potential - I suggest they look at the vast majority of world leaders, CEOs, famous sportspeople etc

Admittedly no, it doesn't refute it, but I thought it was interesting in terms of family environment information (which I had actually thought was more influential tbf)!

No it shows them that the values of kindness, empathy etc should be celebrated. Supporting boys to express their feelings rather than other more toxic behaviour is celebrating boys, it's freeing them.

Op I had this concern as a mum of boys and a teacher.

Feminism is also very much about changing those structures that make it harder for the female sex. That includes making sure that young boys are given the correct messages that helps them to grow up to not be another part of those problematic structures.

Robert Webb's book how not to be a boy illustrates this well, as did the bbc documentary no more boys and girls.

The "mighty girl" messages need to be there for boys too except they get a lot of this in culture already.

I want to write more but it's my turn to let dh have some bed slouch time while I do parenting stuff. (I've had a good long slouch!)

The message feminism has for boys - "you are sick and disgusting, but if you don't abuse or oppress women, you will be tolerated #YesAllWomen"

I really don't know where you get this from.

Is it from feminists talking about facts? Because if we don't talk about gendered violence women and girls are subject to from men and boys who will?

I know many feminists, most of them radical, and apart from lesbian separatists (who are doing great job of raising awesome boys), most quite like men. This doesn't mean the issues stemming from patriarchy & gendered violence go away. Men suffer from both as well and men really need to get more involved in confronting and changing toxic masculinity, inequality etc. But as been pointed out they might have to give up some privilege to do so.

It's not feminists job or role to be responsible for everyone. And centring "feminism" on men ceases to be feminism.

Just to answer the statement you made to me, op, I went looking and found these results from the first wave (n>3000) of a longitudinal survey in British prisons.

Many prisoners had problematic backgrounds:
 Twenty-four per cent stated that they had been in care at some point during their
childhood. Those who had been in care were younger when they were first
arrested, and were more likely to be reconvicted in the year after release from
custody than those who had never been in care.
 Many prisoners had experienced abuse (29%) or observed violence in the home
(41%) as a child – particularly those who stated that they had a family member
with an alcohol or drug problem. Those who reported experiencing abuse or
observing violence as a child were more likely to be reconvicted in the year after
release than those who did not.
 Thirty-seven per cent of prisoners reported having family members who had been
convicted of a non-motoring criminal offence, of whom 84% had been in prison, a
young offenders’ institution or borstal. Prisoners with a convicted family member
were more likely to be reconvicted in the year after release from custody than
those without a convicted family member.
 Eighteen per cent of prisoners stated that they had a family member with an
alcohol problem, and 14% with a drug problem.
 Fifty-nine per cent of prisoners stated that they had regularly played truant from
school, 63% had been suspended or temporarily excluded, and 42% stated that
they had been permanently excluded or expelled. Prisoners with these issues
were more likely to be reconvicted on release than those without.

These data, to me, show that parental/family influence is important, but not defining in terms of criminality (or the percentages would be much higher). The cohort is 91% male.

So we come back to the importance of free will and teaching boys/men to make better choices.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/278837/prisoners-childhood-family-backgrounds.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiA5IbJxuzeAhXLAcAKHSQXBpgQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1WsKPkSBmFB9W-FPJ2nirj&cshid=1543046461035" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/278837/prisoners-childhood-family-backgrounds.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiA5IbJxuzeAhXLAcAKHSQXBpgQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1WsKPkSBmFB9W-FPJ2nirj&cshid=1543046461035

Peeved,

I also agree that feminism’s concerns should lie with girls and women (and, as a man, I should not really have input into it).

However, the message schools give to both sexes is very much my concern and, sadly, they seem to be very easily swayed by every passing fad (‘growth mindset’, ‘thisgirlcan’, Mermaids etc etc).

It saddens me that this often seems about scoring brownie points rather than actually helping all children and young adults develop genuine resilience (the resilience agenda in schools often achieved the exact opposite).

Where pressure groups interact with schools, though, they should be careful of delivering a nuanced message and encourage questioning, not the reverse.

*please excuse the typos I have a cuddly cat on my chest batting at my phone