Not sure I am on board with feminism any more.

I agree and so instead of sayin "men need to fix ...." /// "men tneed to take responsibiity for...." as if "men" exists as a concept that can "do" anything. Only individiuals can actuially do anything.

And yet your whole post is about what feminists should do

Imagine how good it would be if people were treated as unique individuals not as members of a class.

This is exactly what I have always understood feminism to aim for. The problem is class structure and issues do exist. We don't make them go away by not drawing attention to them

I don't much care for the various agendas the schools push

I couldn’t leave this unchallenged.

Staff in schools have their hands tied by the LA and the DfE. If we are told we have to affirm a pupils gender identity on pain of losing our jobs, what do you expect us to do? We are trying our best to encourage children of both sexes to challenge gender stereotypes but we are now being told by powerful pro-trans organisations that, for example, we have to teach children that “most but not all boys have a penis and most but not all girls have a vagina”. We know it’s bullshit. But our voices are not being heard.

OP, it seems you have just the one example of a school event that focused on male violence and you’ve extrapolated it to the entirety of the school system and feminism. That’s why people aren’t taking your viewpoint seriously.

"I'm blaming feminist movement as it manifests in our culture."
One last try. Examples?

Lewji - I'm not blaming women. I'm blaming feminist movement as it manifests in our culture. There's a difference.

Whatever, you're still blaming the wrong group.

You should focus on mysoginists not feminists.
They're the ones responsible for the poor image of men, because it's not an image problem. It's a reality problem.

It looks like you'd rather have feminists patting men on the back while they still mistreat women and keep them in their place.

I wish I could find the previous threads on this.

There's a quote I'm trying to find also regarding it never being right for girls until we make it right for the boys too.

Yes birds, all that was in the bbc documentary and how a lack of it damages boys.

I'm speed typing due to being mum of two boys

The patriarchy and misogyny is self perpetuating if it's not being dismantled for the sake of boys and girls. Hence why radical feminism is so much about being anti gender stereotypes. I believe in the past this focus had to be more about liberating women; now it's definitely for both.

The creators of Sonshine magazine created for this reason. Not a fan of the Xmas present lists (too pricey!) but some excellent articles on why raising boys matters too.

sonshinemagazine.com/

But they also call those qualities toxic when men display them. When women do, it's empowerment.

Toxic masculinity is not about those qualities is about only valuing those qualities.
Can you see the difference?

Apartheid. Black people can't travel on a nice warm comfy bus to work. They have to walk. Only white people can travel on the bus. Black people campaign for the right to travel on the bus. In this example, in what way should the black campaigners concern themselves with the message this sends out to white people?

I think females need the support of feminism more than males, right now

The majority of feminist literature tells boys not to be competitive, ambitious or stand up for themselves? What?

I am talking about the cause of feminism and its self defeating methods about how it communicates.

For one, feminism is not a club. It has many different voices and different ways of presenting it's message.

But the main message is equality and fairness between men and women.

Yes, you keep blaming women and keep talking about image over substance.

Go on a male oriented forum and challenge male behaviour and attitudes.

Go and challenge males that post threats against women on social media.
That's the people you should focus on for how men are seen.

"err... the content of the majority of feminist literature and campaigning?"
Right-maybe we're getting somewhere. Can you pick out the most egregious example you've read/seen/heard recently?

I don't think it's self defeating. It's been pretty successful over the last 100 years. Still a long way to go.

You still haven't answered how you think feminists are telling boys that they can't be competitive, ambitious or stand up for themselves.

"I am talking about the cause of feminism and its self defeating methods about how it communicates."

But refusing to give any examples of how "it" communicates........

Can I ask what your "Feminism" sources are? What feminist books have you been reading? Because I don't recognize your interpretation at all!