369 transpeople murdered? Channel 4 checked.

And not in a hate crime or because they were trans as far as we know.

Have you read the story? It was definitely because they were trans.

But I won't dwell on that; I don't really understand your ire at the trans day of remembrance. It takes nothing away from women, or from children in the Yemen, for those who wish to to mark the losses in their community.

The murder last year was tragic. Did it happen because the victim was transgender?

There are so many threads about that! Any LM threads as LM says it, tweets it, ion a very regular basis, on Stonewall posts, as they use it too and many more!

For someone as active you you are on the FWR boards it would be nigh on impossible to miss previous discussions about the misuse of numbers and statistics by many pro TRA posters and organisations!

But we are pointing out that TRAs are bandying worldwide statistics without quoting sources and letting people believe that the 369 people they keep talking about were murdered in the UK alone.

Do they? Well I must admit I've never seen that. Every time I've seen that "369" it's been clear it's a global figure. There was one trans person murdered in the UK last year and the case was truly horrific

RatRolyPoly 85,000 children have died in Yemen.

2 women a week are killed by their partners in the UK.

But who were councils, universities, businesses and other organisations making a big deal out of remembering last week?

A single trans person, murdered in the UK in the last year. And not in a hate crime or because they were trans as far as we know.

Can't you see the problem with this? That elevating the suffering of trans people in this way is politically motivated, insincere and pretty distasteful.

That seems completely the opposite of what it's saying! Just as your post is saying the precise opposite of what poster here have posted!

The Office for National Statistics say they are working on creating a standard process for recording violence against trans people. Well how will they do that?

If transwomen are women then there can be no chance of collating their data as transwomen!

If trans people wish to have protections that meet their needs then they have to stand up and be counted, as trans individuals!

Did you all read a different article to me? I have no idea why some are crowing so much, it seems completely at odds with what I've just read.

Even if you only read the last line, the overwhelming thrust of the article was more than clear:

"Anyone that tells you this is clear-cut – on either side of this often vexed debate – is wrong."

How is this fact check, summarised by this comment, a springboard for posters to claim their version as the absolute truth? That seems completely the opposite of what it's saying!

Yep found it.

TDOR if you google it. Trans Day Of Rememberence for those lost to anti trans violence....

Im only half remembering but I think Im in a group where someone was gping to an annual rememberence of the trans dead? Presumably though thats suicide as well as murder. I wonder if thats using the wrong statistics

V interesting

Facts are a spectrum y'know.

Basic fact checking.

The estimate of the trans population used by all the media is 0.6% of population, which would mean roughly 46 million trans people worldwide (seems high, but okay).

369 deaths worldwide would mean a murder rate of 0.80 (per 100,000 people).

Do the same calculation with women (49.6% of the world population) and you get a murder rate of 2.29.

The current figure for the world murder rate is 6.2.

And the Yemeni children need 230.

And 100 million 'missing' women worldwide. As a result of sex selective abortion, killing girl children, and general neglect and abuse of women.

Which means we need roughly 270,000 days of remembrance. A year, you understand.

That's a tiny number, especially if trans people really are 1% of the population as TRAs claim.

I’ve never understood why they exaggerate their numbers when it just makes the murder and suicide rate look even smaller.

It's 369 globally. That's a tiny number, especially if trans people really are 1% of the population as TRAs claim. Someone was naming them one by one on Twitter. I noticed the majority came from Latin America. Well, Latin America is infamous for violence against women in general. When's the Day of Remembrance for them?

85,000 children have starved to death in Yemen since Saudi Arabia started bombing three years ago. When's their Day of Remembrance?

Rose of Dawn also did a fact check and in depth discussion and analysis:

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=124&v=sDfBu3wZXu0

Its also likely that Susie Green believes there have been considerably more instances of 'hate crime' that she has not decided to report to the police.

Just like there are probably many unreported negative incidents in countries with self-ID. These are probably more minor incidents but it is well known that many sexual assaults against women go unreported, which is conveniently forgotten by proponents of self-ID when telling us how there are no problems in other countries . (By the way, that's not true.)

@WTFIsAGleepglorp (apologies for the @)

Thanks for sharing this.
Its good that Channel 4 are doing some research and the fact check (acknowleging its limitations) is important when so much misinformation is out there.

Would you consider asking MN to edit the title of your thread so that it can be more easily found please? The title and source of the article would be really useful
They've been happy to do this in the past- you can report your OP and request it there
Things are moving very quickly on the board with many important articles etc coming out and it might make it easier for more people to become aware of it.

The statistics on hate crime prevelence do need some further nuanced and respectful consideration.

Some surveys (eg Stonewall etc) record how many people who are transgender report that they have experienced a Hate Crime. However there needs to be some recognition of what the scope of that might be.
Examples of alleged 'hate crime' reported by some within the transgender community:
-billboards that say only 'woman = adult human female' reported as hate crime.
-Meghan Murphy twitter mass reporting and reporting and sanction for 'hateful conduct' for posting, “Women aren’t men,” and another, asking, “How are transwomen not men? What is the difference between a man and a transwoman?”
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/11/20/twitter-wants-shut-right-wants-join-dont-think-either/

-On BBC Victoria Derbyshire show, CEO of Mermiads Charity,
"17 times in the past six months its founder, Suzie Green, has reported abusive online messages to the police. Eight cases in the past year have been investigated as suspected hate crimes."

so whilst Susie Green believed 17 required reporting to the police, 9 of these were not investigated as 'suspected' hate crimes. Of the remaining 8, how many actualy are 'hate crimes'? Its also likely that Susie Green believes there have been considerably more instances of 'hate crime' that she has not decided to report to the police.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-44661079

Also in this episode about Mermaids, a workshop for parents run by a transgender police officer:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294478-Victoria-Derbyshire-show-today-transgender-children-buying-time-by-delaying-puberty

Mermaids information: www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/hate-crime.html

Stonewall's guide (in screenshot) explains that 'hate crime' is when a crime is committed and this is due to hatred for a person's race,
sexual orientation, religion, gender identity or
disability.
cf Mermaids definition which is less clear

In the articles following Karen White's conviction for sexually assaulting female prisoners it emerged that White (a serial rapist and violent abuser of children and women) had reported an elderly neighbour to the police for the alleged 'hate crime' of 'misgendering'
Guardian:
[Jenny-Anne Bishop, from the transgender rights group Transforum said,] “She seemed like somebody who was very much going to plough her own furrow regardless of the community advice, and she was going to demand her rights. She insisted people referred to her in her acquired gender without trying terribly hard to present as a woman.

“She would report people for a hate crime if they stumbled over which name to use for her – it was not a way to get yourself absorbed into the community. She was a person who would not compromise.”
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison

Not aware of this. What programme is it? Tia