Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

609 replies

drum123 · 21/11/2018 20:06

Apologies if there is already a thread about this. Channel 4, 10.00 tonight. 'Stella O'Malley considers the huge rise in numbers of young people embarking on gender transition, through the prism of the gender identity issues she experienced when she was a child.' According to The Times no TRA groups were prepared to contribute to this . Stella feels this may be because she was a tomboy as a young girl, (even insisting she was a boy until she hit puberty), and is now a confident, mature woman who believes that nowadays she would be pressured to go down the transition route. Sounds like it will be worth watching.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
R0wantrees · 25/11/2018 09:51

Sunday Times today, parent's story:

"My daughter transitioned when she was just over 16. It was between six months and a year before the school told us. They made her a little name badge and started using the new [male] pronouns, and were full-on affirming. We only found out at a parents’ evening. We’d gone in to see how she was doing in her A-levels and they dropped that on us.

Before it all started, she’d come out to us, saying she thought she was lesbian. We went, “Yeah, we wondered whether you’d tell us”. She started wearing masculine clothing and I thought that was her finding her identity as a lesbian. Then she had her hair cut, which suited her. I didn’t realise the symbolic meaning of it.

Looking back, she started spending a lot of time on the internet. As a parent, you think fair enough, they’re finding themselves; I’m not going to track her. I thought the web community would support her as a young lesbian. But once you get into that social setup it becomes very difficult to recant, because you will lose all your friends. Saying, “I was wrong, I’m not really trans”, blows the thing out of the water." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-school-was-already-calling-her-him-ld3pskjjn?shareToken=4ca06f484d0119579d32631445d5c319

R0wantrees · 25/11/2018 09:40

further developments re GenderGP and Drs Helen & Mike Webberley:

Sunday Times:
"A private gender clinic that gave sex-change hormones to a 12-year-old has been left in limbo after both its doctors were placed under investigation by the General Medical Council (GMC).

Helen Webberley, founder of Gender GP in Wales, was convicted in court last month of operating gender treatment services without a licence. She was already subject to a GMC investigation and is banned from treating transgender patients unsupervised.

She announced that her husband Mike, also a GP, would take over the service to give trans clients “the highest standards of care”. Last week, however, the GMC began to investigate Mike Webberley. It has banned him from prescribing sex-change hormones over the internet, one of Gender GP’s main lines of business, and said any such patients must see him in person at his Abergavenny home.

In a statement, Mike Webberley said the investigation was “perhaps inevitable” given the “negative attention” his wife had received. He blamed “spurious complaints made against me by individuals, many of whom are less qualified than myself”.

Most of Gender GP’s patients are adults but it has earned notoriety for its willingness to treat children with hormones that can cause irreversible changes and compromise fertility. NHS guidelines do not allow such treatment for under-16s." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gp-couple-face-questions-after-giving-sex-change-hormones-to-12-year-old-0vmlz8cmf?shareToken=0a9fa71c1749807116e2eec2e67a0f69

R0wantrees · 25/11/2018 09:32

Amongst he most prominant of 'glossy diversity awards ceremonies' is Pink News.
This was attended by key politicians as well as celebrities.

It is also important to consider the sponsors of the awards.

www.pinknews.co.uk/topic/pinknews-awards/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3390910-Can-we-talk-about-Pink-News-Collecting-examples-of-their-propaganda

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 25/11/2018 09:18

Part of the explanation, say some professionals, is the activist groups themselves. Helped by funding from the public sector, the national lottery and the BBC’s Children in Need, they have undergone their own transition, from marginalised outsiders to darlings of the Establishment, fixtures of official panels and glossy diversity awards ceremonies.

This really does remind me of Kids Company.

R0wantrees · 25/11/2018 09:04

drum123 Andrew Gilligan in The Sunday Times picks up and expands on many of the issues in the program.

Where Stella O'Malley says at the end that these are 'children who are lost.... and being led', Gilligan's article identifies the roles played by some TRA organisations & charities:

'Trans groups under fire for huge rise in child referrals
Activists and vloggers are in the spotlight as one school says 40 pupils ‘do not identify as their birth gender’
(extract)
"To trans activist groups that focus on young people, such as Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence, this is a flowering of public awareness and acceptance that has lifted people’s fear of revealing their innate gender identities.

Others say this cannot be the whole reason. “If that’s the case, where are the adults, the middle-aged people seeking transition?” said Jane Galloway, a parent and women’s rights campaigner. Over the same five-year period there has been a rise in the number of adults referred for gender treatment of 240% — big, but lower than for children.

Part of the explanation, say some professionals, is the activist groups themselves. Helped by funding from the public sector, the national lottery and the BBC’s Children in Need, they have undergone their own transition, from marginalised outsiders to darlings of the Establishment, fixtures of official panels and glossy diversity awards ceremonies.

“They are not just supporting transition, they are promoting it,” said Moore. “They have created a market for it.”

In Brighton, an LGBT charity called Allsorts Youth Project has launched the UK’s first group for “trans or gender-questioning” children aged 5 to 11. As of March, according to Allsorts documents, it had 27 local members with an average age of nine. “Trans adults facilitate the space in order to give children positive role models,” the documents say. The charity’s Facebook profile picture states: “Allsorts means family.” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-groups-under-fire-for-huge-rise-in-child-referrals-2ttm8c0fr

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 25/11/2018 08:41

I think I may have started the derailing, sorry. I didn't realise I was stepping into a subject with history when I said about contacting MP's.

drum123 · 25/11/2018 08:39

It looks like my thread has been a bit derailed, as often happens in any discussion. Perhaps it's time for another thread to be started, to discuss the issues that have arisen. The issues the TV programme raises will continue to be discussed, I'm sure.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 24/11/2018 22:47
Hmm
KayM2 · 24/11/2018 22:42

Of course it isn't about me. But if someone makes an attack on me , as I mentioned happened again at @ 8.30 tonight, in which my word , motivation, and honesty is questioned, and in which allegations are made about my behaviour elsewhere that could be harmful to me at ( eg) the WPUK meeting in early December, what am I supposed to do?

As for divulging personal details; as you know, it is common for some people on Mumsnet to assume that people like me are playing double games, and are in real life just middle aged men with a computer and a collection of porn. That was an attempt at humour, by the way. I can't help thinking that that suspicion is what is happening here. I am totally "out", and everyone around me knows my history. I do hope that at least one or tow of the regular posters do meet up with me sometime soon. I hope and believe that suspicions will fade.

R0wantrees · 24/11/2018 22:31

Kay as I said previously this isn't about you.

The thread is discussing serious concerns identified in the Channel 4 program.

These are issues that may on FWR understand and have been discussing for some time.

Perhaps it would be good tohave a re-read of what has actually been posted? I find it helpful to do this and reflect.

KayM2 · 24/11/2018 22:23

ROw; it was a post made at @ 8.30 this evening.

Although, since you mention it, I did not set out to endorse Dr Webberley. Certainly not in terms she would approve of! I don't think people are "good" or " bad" I try to be positive, where possible, and said some positive things about her business, and her intentions being good, but among other things I seem to recall very much not approving of hormones for kids, and saying that only mature adult people who were willing to take their own chances should use her services; or somesuch.

Apparently, I am told, she is legging it to set up in Spain, same business. Will that work after Brexit?

You said I was endorsing her, but I was criticised by email for slagging her off. So.... I sit on fences a bit, and everyone thinks I am an arse. Nothing new then. :-)

R0wantrees · 24/11/2018 22:07

Kay Do please re-read LangCleg's post.

It seems you have misunderstood/ are misrepresenting what she has posted.

There was no encouragement from her or need for you to disclose further personal details.

R0wantrees · 24/11/2018 21:55

Sorry, anyone wondering what that was about; I got it in the neck on this thread earlier.

Where?
Your endorsement of Dr Helen Webberley was challenged.

This shouldn't be a surprise especially in the context of this thread.

KayM2 · 24/11/2018 21:43

Langclegg
I was Kay M on Angels, and never made fun of radfems; I was increasingly criticised by many members for taking much the same line as I am taking here. Though as time has gone on I have become more convinced than ever that the likes of Debbie Hayton is right, so yes I have changed to some extent in how I expressed my ideas. I was then Kay M on Mumsnet for a while, but got some severe flack from people who saw me as a stoolpigeon, and a spy. I left for a while. I then came back, and told Mumsnet HQ that I was Kay M, but that that had happened, and was Ceinwen for a while ( I was brought up in Wales) …the flack I was getting died down, so I openly announced on Mumsnet that I was Kay M, and re-signed up as Kay M 2. I hate subterfuge, and what I had done was subterfuge.... though most people on Mumsnet use names other than their own.

I am not a spy, and not a liar by nature. I am a 71 year old post operative transsexual woman , with a GRC and so on. I have lived as " me" since 1999, and transitioned at Farnham Art College ( UCA). I live entirely " out"; my family are all on-board, and my surviving sister and my daughter are very happy that I have taken the line on self ID that I have.

I don't know what more I can say; I don't know why you are so hostile to people like me ,and others.

I can't recall any " mocking" that I may have done on Angels. I would hope that tehre is a misunderstanding, or that things posted by others are being ascribed to me. I know I got it in the neck for having " radfem friends", and am banned from it now. And also from the same website that chucked the splendid Debbie Hayton off. I know that someone on Mumsnet once said of Angels that " some sensible stuff posted by Kay M , and XXX". Why would I mock? What grounds would I have to mock? Why would I lie?

I have a ticket to the WPUK meeting in R in a week; if anyone on this thread is going, make up your own mind what I am like. I am the white curley headed pig faced thing with glasses and a palpable back condition.

Sorry, anyone wondering what that was about; I got it in the neck on this thread earlier.

OldCrone · 24/11/2018 20:50

S.W is a sharp chap, and I can't see why he characterises our objections as he does. because what he says of our intentions is not true, as I understand it. Could it be that he misunderstands our objections, and assumes that we are coming from somewhere less well informed and more reactionary than is the case?

Whittle has come on here to discuss with us a couple of times. Most notably on a thread about the girl guides and their trans policy. His reply to concerns about girls having to share their sleeping and washing facilities with boys who identify as girls was for the GG leaders to have a supply of condoms to give out.

He spent more time telling us about the joys of his youthful sexual experiences than actually responding to our concerns. If SW is uninformed about this issue, it's because he chooses to be.

RepealTheGRA · 24/11/2018 20:44

Thanks Lang Smile

LangCleg · 24/11/2018 20:32

I know about the letter; I signed it, using the name I use on Mumsnet.

But not the name you were using on Mumsnet before it was published, Kay. Please be fair and open about it.

Before that letter was published in the Guardian, you had been posting on FWR as Ceinwen, a trans ally woman and not a transsexual. You only became Kay on here once that letter had been praised. Some of us were quite unhappy at the deception, as I'm sure you'll recall. And one of us - not me - was very upset to discover that you were the person mocking them on a trans forum with another member of that forum who also used to post on FWR.

Pages 8-12 of the thread R0 linked to above are informative for anyone who wasn't here at the time.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3240366-Letter-in-The-Guardian-from-Transexuals-saying-self-ID-not-the-answer?pg=8

I'll repeat here what I said:

Here, I appreciate that someone has signed a letter that indicates transsexual persons agree with me on self-ID - and so I say so.

Here, I also unappreciate that the same someone has been posting on the forum presenting themselves as a woman ally of trans people but now tells me that they've actually been a trans person all along - and so I say so.

For good or for ill, I also have a particular beef with people who make emotive appeals to female socialisation on feminist messageboards and, when I see that playing out, draw attention to it. I realise that it makes some people feel uncomfortable and I also realise that I can be a bit of a hardliner about it so many here might agree when it's particularly egregious but also disagree other times and think I put too high a priority on it.

Also, to save you the effort of reporting this post and then withdrawing your own response to it as you did earlier, I'll be reporting this myself immediately after posting. It may stay up, it may not, but you don't need to bother.

Ereshkigal · 24/11/2018 20:11

As I've just said on the Trans Windows thread. I've only watched half of this so far, and as a Trans Widow, it actually made me feel grateful that my ex turned into a frothing TRA. It made it much easier to leave than if he'd been earnestly gender critical.

If he'd have been understanding, would I have felt I had to stay and be miserable?

I think this is a really important point.

R0wantrees · 24/11/2018 20:10

KayM2 Given the thread, I think SW's involvement in the CBBC program, his response to the TS letter & his irresponsible comment about suicides are pertinent.

You'll likely find other places better able to answer your questions about how Stephen Whittle may be feeling.

He does tweet
twitter.com/stephenwhittle

NeurotrashWarrior · 24/11/2018 20:08

Kay and lass and as always R0, thank you for your posts, I'm reading with great interest. I hope many are reading and lurking. Esp those with any links to parliament or safeguarding and medical policy. And thanks again to Stella.

NeurotrashWarrior · 24/11/2018 20:05

Is there no way to be a butch, straight, woman anymore?

I don't think it's easy at all any more. Butch lesbians get shortshrift in society. Probably a porn element too. In sense8 (net flix or amazon, can't remember) the butch lesbians are clearly not 'good' - but that's because they're apparently not approving of the 'lesbian' relationship between the TW main character and her pretty, gender conforming female character. The directors transitioned I believe.

KayM2 · 24/11/2018 20:03

I do follow things, avidly.

We've all got a lot of time for Stephen Whittle, but he does say from time to time that he is stepping back, and his serious health issues are given as the reason.

Perhaps he is like Mary Warnock, who thought for many years that her report had the last word and final verdict on the future of special schools, and did not realise for 20 years how out of touch she had become, and that she had been in large part wrong? Did SW see all this coming, and the huge numbers?

R0wantrees · 24/11/2018 19:14

I know Kay I was just re-reading the thread.

As I said though it was 6 months ago.

Perhaps, Prof Whittle, who has done much for the transgender world, and is not in good health, is not in touch with current "currents" in this complicated ocean?

Mabe you don't follow what's happening very closely?
Stephen Whittle has been very much involved.

He has contributed to Guardian articles. In one he made a very irresponsible comment predicting a 'flurry of suicides'.

It was criticised here (because Safeguarding) and eventually SW said he recognised the basis for the concerns, the importance of Samaritans guidance when discussing suicide and requested an ammendment to the article.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397010-Guardian-article-on-MPs-concern-with-GRA?watched=1&msgid=81873561#81873561

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397127-Stephen-Whittle-Press-for-Change-irresponsible-use-of-likely-suicides-follows-Helen-Belchers-Trans-Media-Watch

R0wantrees · 24/11/2018 19:04

There was a lot of discussion about the letter and the response here at the time.

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3240366-Letter-in-The-Guardian-from-Transexuals-saying-self-ID-not-the-answer

KayM2 · 24/11/2018 19:03

ROwantrees;
I know about the letter; I signed it, using the name I use on Mumsnet. It got me turfed out a couple of websites. :-) I'd sign again tomorrow.

Swipe left for the next trending thread