Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

It's a shame, Lang that some people appear to have the hide of a rhino when it's hinted at that they should stay out of certain conversations or places.

Funny enough, in my earlier woker days I remember watching a documentary about a couple in the US had transitioned, and they stayed together. And I was in awe at the transitioner‘s bravery and commitment to the family. And all my mum said was: ‚What this woman has to put up with is a disgrace. Selfish prat, of course it is comfortable for him like that. But what is with her?‘
She got it back then.

I was talking with my friends Nan recently who is 90+ and her very quick response was very similar. She also commented something along the lines of 'well there have of course always been men who do this dear'
She was mystified with what had happened in recent years but her immediate and primary concern was for children and young people being horrified that they were being enabled to have such such life-changing medical/surgical interventions.

If people wish to form a a private group, invitation only, to discuss very private matters, that would be a sound idea, would it not?

And how would women who need it find it?

A far better solution is for others to have the decency and integrity to respect boundaries and recognise when contribution is not contribution but rather intrusion and violation.

If people wish to form a a private group, invitation only, to discuss very private matters, that would be a sound idea, would it not?

Whereas this thread is about a particularly topical TV programme, and issues around it, and is surely open to all those with a legitimate interest in it, and have contributions to make?.

It may seem to some posters that everyone on it (except any trans/ transsexual people )thinks that such people have no contribution to make. The P.M. inbox says that some readers think otherwise.

It would be a shame of the thread did "end", as there is still a lot to discuss, and the issues are ongoing and will not go away.

Funny enough, in my earlier woker days I remember watching a documentary about a couple in the US had transitioned, and they stayed together. And I was in awe at the transitioner‘s bravery and commitment to the family. And all my mum said was: ‚What this woman has to put up with is a disgrace. Selfish prat, of course it is comfortable for him like that. But what is with her?‘
She got it back then.

It would be very nice if transwidows could feel that their very specific and relevant perspective was acknowledged as important on other threads. It is such an inexplicably marginalized viewpoint, and while I think the transwidows thread is very important, I don't want this perspective hived off because it is a hugely important feminist issue.

This ^^

I for one have lurked on the transwidow thread and it has offered me insight, which I value greatly, and I hope it has made me more mindful of considering the wives‘ perspective (which before was somehow just not present in my head - because it never is in media, I guess). I obviously don‘t comment there, but I agree, it is very important for us to get the whole picture, and quite possibly as the best life line women in this situation find.

Setting something up that is accessible on invitation only or so, might still be a good idea, because affected women can talk more frankly than they would on a publically accessible forum.

I think this group is now defunct. I'd be very sceptical of any group that wasn't independent anyway.

I might be interested in setting something up, as long as it doesn't facilitate men. The Trans Widows thread is called "Escape Committee" for a reason.

Good luck if you (or with others) decide to do this, it seems from an outside perspective that there's a very definite need.

As a general rule, I find explicit boundary violations to be emblematic of coercive behaviour exemplified by the Duluth model.

And R0wan, obviously women should certainly feel safe posting about their specific issues on a section of a website focused on amplifying women's voices and concerns. They shouldn't need to be shooed off to talk about it in private. It should be understood that they should be centred and treated with respect, especially here.

apologies, I missed a point above that should have read:
These are open so of course there may be an occasional few people viewing for unkind or salacious reasons, the odd innapropriate poster, troll or spammer.

Presumably the only people who one can freely discus the most personal matters will be, as they have always been, individuals with whom one has developed a personal, face to face , connection? In private?

Absolutely not true. As I mentioned in an analogous situation. Women diagnosed with gyny cancer do discuss some of the most profoundly deeply personal matters on internet fora.

They rarely meet face to face, though when this happens as a result of them developing relationships online with 'opaque' user names its pretty amazing and profound

These are open so of course there may be an occasional few people viewing, the odd innapropriate poster, troll or spammer.

They have to be so other women with similar experiences can find them and those who do not feel able to post, can lurk and read perhaps until they feel able to join in.

Its very clear though and what is meant by 'safe, respectful and private' & this is understood and protected with all of the nuance neccesary.

That last post of mine was directed to R0wan and Lang.

Ereshkigal, thanks from me too for the link to watch from abroad. Just watching now.

Extremely so, yes. I know that parents of trans identifying children often post on wider threads here and their perspectives are respected by and large. It would be very nice if transwidows could feel that their very specific and relevant perspective was acknowledged as important on other threads. It is such an inexplicably marginalized viewpoint, and while I think the transwidows thread is very important, I don't want this perspective hived off because it is a hugely important feminist issue.

apologies, Abigail Rowland speaks at 1:18 in above.

Social media is never going to be a safe space to discuss really personal issues, is it? Even choosing opaque " user names" will never solve that.

People who have no reason to be on any particular social media will be there, even if they wish to do harm. Even people who have a perfect right to be there, and contributing, and wish, and do, no harm will be there. However much people try to discourage them by subtle or less than subtle means.

Presumably the only people who one can freely discus the most personal matters will be, as they have always been, individuals with whom one has developed a personal, face to face , connection? In private? .

Someone I met at LAWS in Cornwall this year (not the woman that spoke in the audience and at the next meeting)

Really powerful and important speech from LAWS Plymouth:
(at 2:02)
Abigail Rowland 'a poet, writer and former teacher also a sexual abuse survivor and was what we might call a transwidow'

Also from LAWS website, important testimony of a woman raped:
Jane's Story
"Jane contacted Let a Woman Speak and asked if we would publish her story. When Jane opened up and told us what she had experienced, it touched all of us. No woman should have to go through what Jane went through. It's a honour that we are able to allow Jane to tell her story on our website"

(extract)
Why did he do this to me? Why would a man who wants to be a woman want to violate another woman? Was he jealous of my femininity? Did he feel that he needed to rape me to assert his male or female power? Why would he want to hurt me like this? I was the first person to fully accept all of who he was and who he wanted to become! Did one part of him love me and another part of him loathe females? Why me? Has he done this to other women? How will I ever fill in the gaps he has left me with through him making me unconscious for all that time? Is he sorry? Does he have feelings like me, if, as he says, he feels a woman? Does he feel suicidal like I did once my shock had worn off? Will I ever know any answers to my questions that cripple me daily with anxiety? (continues)

www.letawomanspeak.org/jane

What R0 said. Particularly this:

Tinsel's contributions on this thread are really important.

Thank you, Tinsel.

As for this space, I'm not thinking about it in terms of what is nice or appropriate, but what is reasonable. I've just become very aware of how lonely it must be for the trans widows, when the whole world seems to be celebrating a crisis in your marriage as some kind of a rebirth, and the TWAW mantra tells you that you have actually married a woman and become a lesbian without realising it confused. What a headfuck. In this context, I don't think it's unreasonable to wish that one of the increasingly rare spaces where you can still express gender-critical views could be preserved just for women.

I believe there may be more that other women can do (in simple ways) which promote the possibility of more space here.

Starting with respecting, considering and centring their perspective.

The transwidows thread is really important but I wonder how safe it feels for women who post there to join other threads.
Tinsel's contributions on this thread are really important.

wondering if there is any safe, private, dignified space where women can go to discuss the things they might need to when their male partner begins 'exploring' his gender identity?

I'm not aware that there is. When I was first going through this, there was a "Women of the Beaumont Society" Yahoo group (back when Yahoo groups were a thing). It wasn't helpful to me as the few women that used it seemed to be putting up with miserable abusive relationships with AGP's.

I think this group is now defunct. I'd be very sceptical of any group that wasn't independent anyway.

I might be interested in setting something up, as long as it doesn't facilitate men. The Trans Widows thread is called "Escape Committee" for a reason.

Someone I met at LAWS in Cornwall this year (not the woman that spoke in the audience and at the next meeting) has been trying to set something up, this is what she has produced. She has posted about it in the transwidows thread.

transwidows.com/contact/

I'm not asking where (for obvious reasons) but wondering if there is any safe, private, dignified space where women can go to discuss the things they might need to when their male partner begins 'exploring' his gender identity?

And me.
As for this space, I'm not thinking about it in terms of what is nice or appropriate, but what is reasonable. I've just become very aware of how lonely it must be for the trans widows, when the whole world seems to be celebrating a crisis in your marriage as some kind of a rebirth, and the TWAW mantra tells you that you have actually married a woman and become a lesbian without realising it . What a headfuck. In this context, I don't think it's unreasonable to wish that one of the increasingly rare spaces where you can still express gender-critical views could be preserved just for women.

In that vein, mumsnet introducing protected groups (like that alternative big platform for mums has it) might be worth considering for MNHQ. (They probably have, I guess. Just throwing it out there).

and behooves us all to know when our presence is not neutral: it is an intrusion.

Just as a final analogy (I don't want to derail this important thread), within gyny cancer supportive spaces there are very sensitive conflicting experiences. Many women's focus is on the impact on their children/grandchildren while some women are dealing with the griefs of infertility. These are both incredibly deeply felt and important parts of women's lives. Sometimes the perspectives colide but the underlying empathy and respect for the others' as well as the shared experiences as women with gyny cancer diagnosis usually prevents intrusion.