Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

Brilliant well done Stella, you are a brave and stunning woman. And Debbie thanks to you and your amazing family for appearing in the programme.

As for the TRAs? It's just unbelievable that that bunch of misfits feel they are qualified to challenge any of the adults at the meeting.

Kyle's expression, when she said that she had no regrets, betrayed her true feelings. I thought she was going to cry. It was absolutely heartbreaking, I feel so sorry for her.

Yes I see. But what about the sex thing I wonder?

Just watched on catch up.

The biggest "moment" to me was when Kyle said she didn't regret her transition/detransition but the moment after she looked devastated.

It was almost as if it was the first time she'd been asked (perhaps it was) and she had this stock answer but then actually started to think about the question.

My heart went out to her.

I'm glad they covered what happened in Bristol properly - especially compared to the Munrore documentary version - and I don't think anyone can be in doubt about the aggressive tactics of TRA's.

Overall I think it was a good documentary but I'd liked to have seen more information on the lack of medical research and known side effects to date on blockers and cross sex hormones.

Pemba I think that late transitioning men usually have a solid framework of support, 20 years of marriage or so with a woman. They've built relationships with women who they know aren't likely to just drop them. The men are their children's fathers. The trans widows won't simply jump ship because they have children together and will put up with a lot of shit simply to keep their children in a familiar home and school environment.

I'd be very interested to know how many single, middle aged men transition. Those without the established support and safety of a long term relationship with a woman.

No she never declared she was happy, at all. I noticed her poker face when Stella was saying 'Well done' on supporting Debbie. Her expression and some of the things she said seemed to indicate that she was resentful, as indeed she has every right to be.

I think she (Debbie Hayton's wife) was honest about the upheaval and difficulty her husband's transition caused. Taking things a few hours at a time, different beds. Clearly she has accepted the situation, at least for now. I don't think she declared she was 'happy'. Did I miss that bit?

She doesn't have to bare her soul to the TV cameras or to anyone else. I think she's an intelligent woman who has decided to remain in her marriage, all things considered. We don't all have to choose the same path.

They are religious, Christian.

Looking at her expression, Debbie's wife didn't seem very happy at all. She has stayed with her spouse purely for the sake of the children I think.

Maybe someone can explain, but I don't understand why so many of these late transitioning MTF transpeople have female partners that they have fathered children with? Surely if they had always felt themselves to be essentially female, they wouldn't have been able to bear having sex as a man?

Like other pps I also thought Debbie's wife looked terribly sad and unable to speak honestly. Quite heartbreaking really to see her in the flesh and remain silent to some of the questions. Smells like the same old facilitating women do endlessly for men. Sorry Debbie if you're reading this but that's how I saw it. Women facilitating and compromising their needs for men, over and over and over again.

No sorry Coughed, I just read it without needing one

Both bread and cake are bakery products. The difference between them is that cake contains sugar, and bread does not

Haa you've obviously never eaten American bread.... (Sorry for sligh derail).

Do you have a share token?

www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2018/11/21/trans-kids-time-talk-review-compassionate-divisive-addition/

“So you're saying that women (and presumably also men) are defined by their reproductive organs. That's quite a reductive definition isn't it? Rather a patriarchal one at that”

Yes Jul - biology and reproductive role -is what defines you as male/man and female/women. Not some inner essence woo woo stuff — just biology and biology/sex affects women and girls hugely in a totally different way it affects men/males.

Catsize made a good point earlier. People who feel they somehow don't quite fit are often candidates for thinking" ah, so THAT is my problem". If I sound heartless, my comment is based on a career in special needs education.

Good programme. So glad Channel 4 showed it this evening.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6415023/Psychotherapist-says-young-people-gender-dysphoria-NOT-encouraged-transition.html

julj70

Please don't be so silly.

Both men and women are principally HUMAN BEINGS. The difference between them is their reproductive class. That doesn't "reduce" anyone to anything.

Both bread and cake are bakery products. The difference between them is that cake contains sugar, and bread does not. This doesn't "reduce" cake to sugar. It obviously also contains flour. But that is not the difference between cake and bread, as so does bread.

Whichever reproductive class you are in you can be a writer, or an scientist, or a dancer. You can be a heroic person or a horrible one. To say that you cannot be these things if you are female, because your role is to just to be fucked and to reproduce, would be to really "reduce people to their genitals". But you can be any of these things, not because of your sex, but because you are a human being.

What is it about the word "reductive" that it is so often accompanied by such inane thinking?

Wrong thread or not julj70, that seems to be the new TRA mantra "You are reducing women to their sexual organs. That's very misogynistic etc"

Seen that twice today.

You can watch it on All4, Helena
www.channel4.com/programmes/trans-kids-its-time-to-talk

oh shit i forgot this was on Does anyone know when/if it will be repeated?

Finally we see an empathetic and fair portrayal. Not balanced sadly as none of the tra spokespeople or organisations pushing positive affirmation were willing to participate, wonder why? Enough said.

Thank you C4.

I thought it was very well done.

As for that plonker with the dark wavy hair and the baby dribble bib around the face at the protest...

Troubling that a third of referrals are for autistic children. Children who struggle to fit into the world.

Oh yes, thank you! That opens in my browser. Though I have to say I haven't missed I did Willoughby's tweets much