Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

It is interesting that so many TRAs find the documentary one sided - I felt it was quite balanced given that none of them would speak on it! The very act of saying that things need to be discussed being seen as one sided and bigoted - this is so extreme.

It was clear that the documentary maker didn’t feel comfortable with the Bristol meeting being quite one sided inside and she made the point that both sides should discuss things rather than being ranged against each other - and yet even that is seen as anti-trans by so many.

And yes, don’t get me started on the ‘cis’ gender male who thinks he can nonetheless define womanly souls in everyone else.

And wow to the meeting!!

Just horrendous

And yay to miranda

All the women there were so brave even going there with that bunch of reprobates yelling outside

The solution is a third space where all the liberal women can choose to share with trans women, in the new third space.

Leaving the current female spaces for the 99% of women who only want to share with other biological women.

The problem of adopting the middle ground when struggling with extremists is that the compromise position can often end up deep in the extremists' territory. One reason we're in this mess is that until now there's been acceptance of all kinds of demands, many of which work against the safety of women and gay/gender non-conforming children.

Getting a sensible outcome actually requires women to be uncompromising in what they think should be permitted. But this means that women, operating outside of their socialisation, are being seen as nasty and extreme. Well, so be it.

When I'm optimistic over this, I actually think the end result will be a compromise that preserves both the rights of women and of trans people. If this happens, I fully expect there to be a chorus of "what were you all worried about! we all knew it was going to be fine!". But we will only get to that point by pushing back hard now, when it's almost too late. Sitting back and waiting for a nice comfortable outcome will cost women and gay/gender non-conforming children dearly.

IW has doubled down on her 'nazis' comment.

The fact that all those pro-trans groups refused to take part has given the TRAs an excuse to bleat about the doc being one-sided to an audience that doesn't know the facts.

What saskia said

Im watching it now on the back of this thread, but would echo the posters thoughts on both debbies wife and cole both of whom seem lovely

It is pretty obvious that it is not really possible to come to an objective , fixed position on all this stuff. People on all sides have their views, and they work hard to "cram" things into looking like objective evidence.We see that in the Bristol meeting coverage; on the one hand the picketers behaved like fools, and said some foolish things that got through the editing process, but also those meetings are not really a discussion of the issues, are they? I've watched the coverage of some, and I am due to attend one shortly, but they are not even-handed at all. They are rallies of the like minded for the anti- self ID camp. ( of which I am a member, as a TS woman) … but hey, we all live to fight another day.

When it comes to trans lives, you can listen to trans EXPERIENCES or cisgender OPINIONS. Your choice.

Alternatively - When it comes to women's lives, you can listen to women's EXPERIENCES or transgender OPINIONS. Your choice.

That tweet doesn't work quite as well as you thought it did, Juno.

Juno Dawson Twitter Comment:
twitter.com/junodawson/status/1065368724419555328

Transmen often seem to initially "pass" better than transwomen.

Thanks for contact details Drum. I've emailed C4

I hope so, LikeDust.

I am still reflecting on the programme and I feel that this was such an important documentary in that it seems like a turning point - especially after watching Cole's response video and how delighted Cole was with it.

The whole debate has been people with agendas, including people like me who absolutely take a feminist position and seek to fight back against what we believe is a branch of male supremacist activism. Someone like Cole or Stella O'Malley seem to have no agenda - they just want to speak openly about this very new phenomenon.
I think this might be the thing that really helps to swing it from being an issue only invested people discuss to something ordinary people want to talk about.

Just watched it. I thought it was very good. It was presented without bias or judgement.

Nothing about that documentary made me feel reassured. Yeah there might be some young people who benefit from transition but we don’t even know that yet, because all the health implications of these drugs haven’t been realised. Cole might be happy now but 10 years down the track who knows? Matt was clearly isolated and depressed, and in my extensive experience of depression and isolation there’s no quick fix, no single cause, but at the point of feeling desperate you’ll take any road out of it you can find, especially when you’re young and inexperienced. Also Matt is already on blockers, and they’re still deeply troubled, which suggests that blockers are not the solution to the problem. Where the fuck is the MH support? Where is the thorough investigation into why this child is so unhappy, especially as the prescribed treatment clearly isn’t working?

Honestly, watching Matt, then seeing those thugs in Bristol, and the utter shite being posted on twitter in response I do actually question the humanity of the people who are pushing for this. I’ve resisted til now to make judgements about these people, but fucking hell, they really are invested in doing as much harm to people as possible. They’re just evil, and all the evidence in the world is freely available to back that up.

I’ve think I’ve reached the point now where I’ve gone from worried and scared to just plain angry. How fucking dare they exploit and harm vulnerable kids. I probably would’ve been one of them if I was 25 years younger, and that thought horrifies and terrifies me to the core, right down beneath my conscious thoughts into the depths where I can’t even access or convey. It’s just horrific.

I noted that the popular YouTube transmen are all very good looking.

Cole is a lovely young man. The difference in responses between FTM and MTF transgender viewers is very telling.

I really wished though that there could be a truthful documentary that showed the reality that this is all being driven by people who have all had the privilege of growing up male. Had kids. Won awards. They have all had their lives as men and are all pushing for kids to be sterilized and mutilated.

Genuinely scared

Phone froze sorry

I just watched this.

I thought it was very good tbh

It showed quite well the young people all watching the you tube videos and setting out on a journey with no idea where they are going.

It worried me matt was upstairs on his lap top and just seemed so isolated and depressed. You really got the impression there was so much more to it and that altering your body wouldn't solve anything.

No one looked happy tbh. Well apart from cole. Very worrying that all his knowledge of what would happen came from the internet. What kind of Dr start a a treatment plan like this witg no set end goal. No information. It takes away informed co sent doesn't it?

The footage of the Bristol talk was shocking. I hope the nation has now seen a glimpse of the people behind all this. People who don't even have the courage to show their faves and we are supoosed to listen to them and respect them?

They did not explain or answer a thing I don't think they even know what they are campaigning for. Ckearly swept along in sone vigilante style group spouting what is so clearly nonsense.

If you are right why can't you prove it. Why won't you talk.

Stella seemed he homely scared for the future of the children and rightly so.

for insight into TRAs see current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3430844-sound-recording-of-leeds-terf-wars-meeting

I've just watched.
I think Debbie's wife deserved a medal (I know you might be reading this Debbie). Sending love out to all you trans widows.

I know Debbie is a GC ally, but her wife - you could tell this has almost broken her. Again, it's all about putting the man's feelings first so he can transition. What about her mental health?

I'm glad they showed so much of the TRAs who turned up at the Bristol meeting. "My pronouns are they." It was like a comedy sketch! You couldn't make it up! And the boy outside who said he wasn't a woman so wouldn't dare define what a woman was, but then went onto define what he thought a woman was ie a feeling in a man's head......

Face palm

I was looking for this thread last night

We have one on telly addicts too

There is a Royal Society of Medicine and people in Alternative or Complementary Medicine often claim unusual qualifications or kudos from attending events there, speaking there, or being affiliated to an organisation that is affiliated to it.

www.rsm.ac.uk

Thank you Bittermints and Orchid I did think it was an odd statement, even from someone with a history of odd statements.

I think India is trying (badly) to make the point that this person is not qualified to comment.

Oh, the irony.