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Original poster

Advice: Boyfriend Slut Shaming

81 replies

k1632225 · 21/11/2018 15:21

Hi everyone, this is my first post so apologies if anything is unclear. I'm coming here as I would really like some advice/material/general thoughts on something that happened a few weeks ago.

A little info about me: I'm 23 and have been in a v happy relationship with my boyfriend for a year now.

While on holiday a few weeks back I was showing my boyfriend pictures from a previous holiday I went on (when we were not together). One picture was just before a friend and I were going on a night out and I was wearing short denim shorts. Immediately he reacted to the picture saying that I looked 'slutty'. I was really taken back by the comment, mainly because throughout our relationship he hasn't once made a misogynist comment or ever spoken about me in a derogatory way. I went on the defense straight away saying that I didn't agree at all with what he had just said. He came back with, well from a guys point of view, compared to girls who aren't wearing shorts that reveal half of their arse, I looked like a slut. I was really hurt, and surprised and the conversation stopped there. I'm not very good at dealing with conflict but knew I wasn't happy with how this had gone so later on, in a more appropriate setting (this initial interchange happened on a tour bus in Iceland) I brought it up again.

I said that I was really hurt that he had called me a slut. He said that he hadn't called me a slut, rather said I looked like one and that was different. He went on to reiterate his view point again about how on a night out, men would see a girl wearing less clothes as easy/more slutty, compared to a girl wearing say jeans.

My main argument point was that I don't care what men think of how I dress. I was wearing those shorts for myself because I thought I looked good. I said that he was feeding a rape culture that women are owned by men, and that everything we do is for the attention of a man. I said that it is incorrect to infer the history of someones sexual past by what they are wearing (i.e. inferring that I've slept with lots of men just because I am wearing short shorts). And lastly said I was in a hot country and therefore wearing shorts were appropriate (not that it should matter what country I am in).

He said he understood and did believe that I wasn't wearing the shorts for other men, but said regardless I was going to attract male attention, and because I moan about 'creepy men' on nights out, questioned why would I wear this type of clothing.

I can't really recall how the conversation ended - I think it was him basically not understanding my points and me feeling hurt and disagreeing with his. I felt annoyed and ignored him for a good hour (lol) but realised we were on holiday so we agreed to postpone this discussion until we returned.

I should note that I'm often not good at verbalising myself in emotive situations and do struggle to say what I want to say unless I have thought about it prior - which is why I'd really appreciate any of your thoughts, so that when I can bring this up I have discussion points I can provide him.

My boyfriend is very open to discussion and wanted to get my point of view and understand why I was so hurt by this comment, he was not aggressive in any way, and I do feel if I can get him to see why his comment/line of thinking is not ok, he would learn from it.

Thanks in advance!!!

OP posts:
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ScottCheggJnr · 27/11/2018 22:20

People should be able to wear whatever they please, and your boyfriend's comment was maybe a little insensitive. However, being judged for your appearance is inevitable - there's a reason why so many girls on dating websites say things like "don't contact me if you have pictures with your shirt off or flexing your muscles." It's the male equivalent of having your boobs/bum hanging out.

Original poster
k1632225 · 27/11/2018 16:55

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for contributing and sharing your thoughts - I really am quite shocked/overwhelmed by how many responses I have received. Like I said in my previous post, I'm new to this forum (and signed up with a gmail account I don't use) so I can only apologise for the delay in replying.

I mainly want to thank everyone who validated and acknowledged my experience as being crappy - I am a feminist but sometimes when things happen to you personally you start to doubt yourself (accept lower standards than you would for anyone else..) and think 'maybe I'm just overreacting' or being 'oversensitive' (GROSS I KNOW) but I guess that is also the byproduct of the society we live in. So really, thank you for that, and I guess as silly as it sounds this whole process of writing it out has been v therapeutic.

After reading all of your responses I have a clearer argument in my mind - I feel like seeing how you have written responses has allowed me to better understand my anger and be able to formulate it in a way that I can express it to someone else.

Below is a note I wrote on my phone which I titled 'Reasons why I don't like that you called me a slut:'

  1. Above and ignoring everything else I think it was a hurtful, mean, disrespectful and a judgemental comment and I don’t think it is acceptable for my partner (or anyone) to call me something like that. I would never say something negative about someone’s appearance if they showed me a picture of them (and I especially wouldn’t do that to you).
  1. Your comment made me feel bad/self-conscious about my choices - I hope this isn’t want you intended to do - but if it was then that worries me as I would hope my partner would support me in decisions I make - particularly in decisions that are literally causing no harm whatsoever.
  1. I think it was an objectifying comment - I felt like your comment feeds into a rape culture that everything a woman does is for a man - that they just used as a sexual object or for a man’s pleasure. You said you were just telling me what men would be thinking when they saw me in the shorts. Like I expressed many times before - I don’t care. Woman can do things because they want to, I wanted to wear the shorts because I thought I looked good, whether you or another man agrees or not, doesn’t matter because it is my choice.
  1. Slut-shaming - even if my intentions behind my outfit choice was to attract men - why would it matter? Would you think less of me? This adds to the idea that single woman who enjoy consensual sex & are available for sex are “bad” vs girls who don’t are “good”. Do you think less of your male friends when they go out on the pull? Do you judge your male friends if they were to wear something that would attract women? If not, then why does it matter for females? What is the difference?
  1. I felt like some of the things you said were verging on victim blaming. You said you were just saying what men think, that when they see a woman who is wearing less they think of them as a slut or easy - and then you linked that back to men creeping on me and questioned why I would wear something if this is the case - inferring my choice of clothing invites that, which is v close to suggesting that I’m asking for it. Maybe you’re right and men did look at me and think I’m a slut - I don’t agree that they should think that or make that judgement, but I can believe that this kind of mindset is engrained in a lot of males. However what I don’t not think is ok is using that as an explanation of why I get repeatedly creeped on/sexually assaulted - mainly because it’s not true but also because it is a males responsibility to control his own actions - not a females. Sexual assault does not differ when I change what I wear it, it is independent of what I wear. If it did matter, sexual assault would be way more prevalent in places like beaches and swimming pools (because women wear less) or in the summer, and way less in places where woman are covered up (ie Saudi Arabia) but that isn’t the case - whether I’m wearing shorts or am completely covered up in a winter coat, scarf etc walking to work with no makeup on - I experience being creeped on. So saying wearing less explains why women get catcalled or touched inappropriately is wrong. When I see a man I find attractive or a man wearing less or even topless I do not sexually assault them or shout derogatory degrading terms at them because I am able to control my behaviour - even if I’m drunk or out on the pull. Men are able to do that too - most humans have sexual urges and are biologically programmed to do so - I don’t believe it’s because male urges are stronger or that they can’t control them, it is because we’ve grown up in a male dominated society and “lad culture” that allows this sort of behaviour to be accepted. I think men blame “slutty” woman to justify this inappropriate behaviour - i.e. I find her attractive, I’m going to arrogantly assume that she’ll want me, and when she turns me down I’m going to blame her for making me attracted to her by how she dresses.
  1. I think it is wrong (and also absolutely no ones business) to infer a womans sexual history from what they are wearing. People are social, they follow norms, trends - a lot of female fashion shops targeting my age group are designed to be revealing, sexy and “feminine”, whereas men’s are not (which is another form of sexism to be discussed on another day). Both following fashion trends and fitting in are important to a lot of people because we are social creatures - we judge ourself as looking nice if we fit in and are on trend. Given the context of me being on holiday, dressing how I did was on trend and appropriate - I felt nice and I guess it boils down to why does anything other than that matter.

My plan of action is to discuss these points with him and see how he responds and then take it from there. If you think there is something glaringly obvious I have missed out or got wrong, feel free to let me know.

Otherwise - thanks again for all your support!

OP posts:
Madmozzie · 26/11/2018 05:03

So, OP didn't bother to come back.
Yeah, funny that. I guess there was enough entertainment without having to come back to fan the flames....

lydiamajora · 25/11/2018 05:40

Seriously, I have plenty of ladyshorts. They are knee-length and very comfy.

I am Captain Misandry McLegbeard, but insisting that it is impossible to find non-short-shorts is being a bit silly.

(Men's jumpers do tend to be a bit thicker than women's, though I like to buy military woolies and they are thick and scratchy and amazing regardless of sex)

ClosdesMouches · 24/11/2018 22:38

So, OP didn't bother to come back.

Hmm
LassWiADelicateAir · 22/11/2018 18:07

Has anyone ever tried to shop for a pair of women's shorts that WEREN'T half way up your arse cheek??? I mean really! It's next to impossible. I resorted to buying shorts from the men's wear department last summer

All women's clothes are designed to be sexy. Ever try buying a nice thick, well fitting jumper? My bf has about 15 amazing jumpers and sweaters and I could just cry.

What a load of nonsense. As Badmoonsarising said where on earth are you shopping if this is all you can find.

applestrudels · 22/11/2018 15:13

I'm a bit late to the conversation, but first of all I want to say that I DON'T think you should automatically break up with your boyfriend based on this alone. Especially if he's never shown any other signs of being controlling or misogynistic, I think this on its own is not a sign of him being a misogynist. Unfortunately it is what a LOT of people think. He is just repeating messages that are all around us in society. I've even said similar things myself in the past, even though I know rationally that they're not true. If he is a sensitive and intelligent person you should be able to talk to him about it...

As for this: "because I moan about 'creepy men' on nights out, questioned why would I wear this type of clothing" - there's a simple answer to that one: creepy men will creep on you WHATEVER you wear. I think all women have got at least one example of being creeped on whilst wearing jeans and a thick winter coat, for example.

If it was all about what women wear, then beaches and public pools would be absolute perv-fests while Saudi Arabia would be a women's paradise where no women ever suffer violence. In reality, rape and violence does happen in Saudi Arabia, and beaches and pools are generally quite chilled, pleasant places for everyone to be.

What it all boils down to is two things: respect for women, but also, I think basically men find women attractive, and are sometimes scared or confused by the strength of their attraction and how much it can take over their thoughts, so they blame women for "making" them feel that way. As if we chose to have bodies that make the blood rush to their genitals. So they reason that, OK, if we didn't choose our body parts, we do choose to "put them on show". Except it doesn't really work like that, because, as I said, if men were crippled by desire at the mere sight of any female flesh then all men at the beach would be having to hide raging hard-ons at all times. And it's all relative. In Saudi Arabia, all women have to cover everything apart from their eyes in public, but then men just start focusing on women's eyes and voices, or the sway of their hips as they walk, so then the religious police issue statements against women who have "slutty" eyes, or voices, or ways of walking.

Basically, men will always be attracted to certain women, whatever we wear, and it is THEIR job to deal with their feelings. There is no way I am going to make myself very uncomfortable by wearing long trousers on a hot summer's day, just to avoid turning on a handful of pervs who'd almost certainly find a way to be turned on anyway, whatever I wear.

Also, maybe you should point out to your boyfriends that women are attracted to men's bodies too, and ask him whether he thinks he is dressing "slutty" when he takes his top off at the beach or what have you.

BrendasUmbrella · 22/11/2018 14:19

Men are, whether we like it or not, biologically programmed for sex

But then surely, so are women? We are the same species.

twattymctwatterson · 22/11/2018 12:48

I'd end the relationship purely because he thinks that women who like and are available for sex (not that you can tell that by clothing) are sluts. He doesn't like women

Badstyley · 22/11/2018 12:37

I do get an immediate ug reaction when somebody does that ‘well a lot of people would think you’re y if you do x. Not me of course because I know you’re not y, but I can see how other people would think that.’ Which translates to, ‘I think other people are y because they do x but I’ve elevated you above that, but yeah, that’s exactly what I think about those people who do x.’ The implication being, ‘if you do x around me then you will lose my respect, because people who do x are therefore y.’

Badmoonsarising · 22/11/2018 12:18

*Has anyone ever tried to shop for a pair of women's shorts that WEREN'T half way up your arse cheek??? I mean really! It's next to impossible. I resorted to buying shorts from the men's wear department last summer.

All women's clothes are designed to be sexy. Ever try buying a nice thick, well fitting jumper? My bf has about 15 amazing jumpers and sweaters and I could just cry.*

Rubbish, i realise I’m nearly 50 so not really into Top Shop much anymore but where on earth are you actually shopping that that’s all you can find?

deydododatdodontdeydo · 22/11/2018 12:11

From the same shop here's a bunch of non-sexy jumpers:
www.peacocks.co.uk/womens/knitwear/jumpers.html

KlutzyDraconequus · 22/11/2018 12:08

Here go Sword
Took about 3 seconds with Google.

www.peacocks.co.uk/lds-denim-short-cycle-237f2f.html

deydododatdodontdeydo · 22/11/2018 12:02

Has anyone ever tried to shop for a pair of women's shorts that WEREN'T half way up your arse cheek???
Yes, there's blummin loads of them, available almost everywhere.

All women's clothes are designed to be sexy.
Not the ones I wear Hmm, not sure where you're shopping, this is just plain wrong.

I hate clothes shopping, really hate it, yet manage to find clothes that cover 100% of my arms and legs and are pretty shapeless to be honest. I have loads of jumpers, all nice thick and well fitting. Not a "sexy" one among them.

SwordToFlamethrower · 22/11/2018 11:54

Has anyone ever tried to shop for a pair of women's shorts that WEREN'T half way up your arse cheek??? I mean really! It's next to impossible. I resorted to buying shorts from the men's wear department last summer.

All women's clothes are designed to be sexy. Ever try buying a nice thick, well fitting jumper? My bf has about 15 amazing jumpers and sweaters and I could just cry.

All mine are either off the shoulder, short sleeved, cropped, see through ffs!!!!. It's absolutely infuriating. OP has your boyfriend ever been out clothes shopping with you? I challenge him to go out alone into the high street and find a pair of knee length shorts, comparable to men's, but from the women's departments.

Tell him never come back until he finds them. Trust me, he won't ever come back.....

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 22/11/2018 11:38

@Aomame83 but you did claim that men are programmed to like sex....as though that some sort of excuse.
We must have different standards in men if you think it's acceptable for a man to say his partner looks like a slut. My DH has seen similar pictures of me but has never called me a slut or made me feel bad about the choices I have made.

Aomame83 · 22/11/2018 11:11

@BlaaBlaaBlaa I think you'll see in my original post I did say
I don't think he is unusual in his attitude, in my experience people do think this way

And I never once said women who wear skimpy clothes are slutty. I stated that OP's boyfriend observed her to be slutty - to simplify, he interpreted what he saw in the picture to mean this. As a PP stated, he has probably internalised this way opinion from his environment, it doesn't mean he is a bad person.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 22/11/2018 10:55

@Aomame83 In your original post you specifically referred to men not people.
And you're still referring to women dressed in a particular way as slutty....not good.

WhatTheWatersShowedMe · 22/11/2018 10:29

HashtagLurky Grin

Deadringer · 22/11/2018 10:25

I hate the whole slutty thing, but I wouldn't dump him for one comment, he stated a fact, men judge women by what they wear, they shouldn't, but they do. If he is open to discussion perhaps he will be open to examining why men think the way they do, rather than why women dress the way they do. I have a grown up DD and clothes shop with her occasionally, she will reject lots of outfits as 'not slutty enough'. She wants to look sexy, she wants to attract male attention, and she doesn't give a fuck what people think of her.

Madmozzie · 22/11/2018 10:07

So you do assert that women and girls who wear skimpy clothes are doing it for a specific reason which is... what exactly?

I'm assuming because she thinks she looks good in them? Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't, that's for her to decide. But you can't tell me that ppl aren't going to look twice at someone's butt cheeks hanging out of their shorts. And you also can't say that (as I think op mentioned she wore shorts as it was hot weather -nothing wrong with that) there's not a difference between shorts, and butt baring short shorts.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 22/11/2018 10:07

Boys who wear their trousers at half mast showign their pants are deemed "tribal"
Girls with their knickers showing are sluts

Many, maybe most, maybe not, are following fashion.
But some boys/men wearing tight tees are wanting to attract girls/women.
Some girls/women showing their knickers are wanting to attract boys/men.
I'm not presuming different intent at all.

Aomame83 · 22/11/2018 10:06

Following local fashions is tribal behaviour.

Aomame83 · 22/11/2018 10:05

Tribal as in the terminology for groups of people.

Aomame83 · 22/11/2018 10:04

I don't know what they are trying to say. Each and every woman I'm quite sure, has a different reason for wearing the skimpy clothing.
Just like in any communication, there is the intent in the message sent by the person and then there is perception of the person receiving the message- they may be an observer or the intended target.

Communication and human nature is complex, throw into that a variety of opinions and communication errors and you have a mess.

Please by all means split up with a controlling or abusive partner, but to throw away a whole year relationship on a mere observation that someone looks a bit slutty in an outfit on one picture, seems rather trivial. I assume that everyone apart from OP's boyfriend is beyond reproach and has never uttered a single statement that could be deemed mildy offensive to a partner. He didn't say she deserves to be assaulted for heaven's sake. He said men perceive the clothing in a certain way. He is a man and he knows other men.