ESRC sending millions of pounds to Sally Hines / Leeds Uni to research gender bollocks

Proper research, not research where the end outcome is already set.

Yes, quite. Sally has done a navel-gazing thought experiment and has received £1m plus to achieve social engineering on the basis of it. Staggering, really, isn't it? She should be doing thought experiments based on the results of research, not designing research to provide a conclusion she's already reached.

You know what's a fast track towards preventing them playing football (or any other sport)? Making them play against boys who identify as girls and having to share the same changing spaces and showers afterwards.

Yep, boys thrashing girls at sport and then getting to watch them naked afterwards. Can’t see why girls aren’t falling over themselves for this.

You know what's a fast track towards preventing them playing football (or any other sport)? Making them play against boys who identify as girls and having to share the same changing spaces and showers afterwards.

This^

I have noticed that almost every trans person I meet who is in employment works in "diversity" or something focussed on trans issues.

It's fascinating.

Almost as if it's a job creation scheme.

It's about looking at and deconstructing the stereotypes that constrict our daughters and prevent them from playing football or doing maths A level.

To add to Bowl's excellent points 1 to 3, let's also get every sport to put 'Men's' in front of those matches every time, just like they do for 'Women's football'.

According to DH (academic sociologist) this is a fairly average grant and you spend it on wages.

£700k would get you:

Some of the time of the principle investigator (lecturer salary)
Salary for 1 or 2 post-docs
1 or 2 PhD students
Lots will go on University overheads
Prob not enough money for an admin person - would need a bigger grant for that

All for duration of project - 3 yrs at least if you are employing PhD students, less if you are employing post-docs.

However if less time you risk not getting anything done except writing a proposal asking for more money...

As a poster on o e ofbthese threads points out, there are five main aims of the pregnant men project.

The welfare of the foetus or baby is NOT among them.

Anyway, here are the threads that talk about the project.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3274586-Big-research-project-to-decide-if-we-still-need-sex-as-a-legal-category

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3401337-Attitudes-to-Gender-a-survey-being-used-to-write-a-new-gender-bill-in-the-UK

Blimey. I posted this in relation to something else yesterday, but it's a hardy perennial and useful in all sorts of situations. calteches.library.caltech.edu/51/2/CargoCult.pdf

A while back someone posted the ESRC research proposal - it was worded as ‘this is the outcome and the research will be to find it.’

Let me try to find the thread.

Bowl, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and I foolishly thought we were moving towards that kind of world. Where did it all go wrong?

And of course I want research.

Proper research, not research where the end outcome is already set.

'Gender' research isn't just about trans people. It's about looking at and deconstructing the stereotypes that constrict our daughters and prevent them from playing football or doing maths A level.

Here’s an idea. It’s radical, bear with me.

1. We stop enforcing rigid shitty gender stereotypes in children and tell them that girls can indeed play football
2. We stop telling girls who like football and have short hair that they must be boys
3. We let girls play football againstvother girls, not bevthrashed and potentially injured by men.

I know. It crazy isn’t it.

Yes to holding a mirror up, but they should also recognise that their mirror has a tint that colours their perceptions and therefore accept being open to other critical and conflicting viewpoints. Are they analysing their "results" within the context of their subjective view point, aware of their own biases and prejudices? Are they supportive of other academics wanting to research a view that challenges theirs? If not, why not?

Women and babies are still dying in childbirth. Miscarriage is not well understood. Endometriosis is a mysterious condition which blights the lives of huge numbers of women. Period pain ditto. At a time when public spending is hugely stretched, I'd rather research was focused on medical research or sociological research on something more useful, like why social mobility is going backwards, or what could be done to make masculinity less toxic.

So 40 in the whole world globally and we have to change the language to describe pregnancy and breat feeding for these 40 individuals?

The pregnant men thing has to be international as there are so few, I think I read that there were only about 40 in the year they were studying.

People do early research in a topic only to later reject the ideology and change direction all the time in academia.

Anyway, feminism will always be a grass roots movement.

the ESRC is a public body, funded by democratically elected governments.

That job is to hold a mirror up to the world.

Could we not have some grants to do that then? Because Sally has nothing of use whatsoever to contribute to a public understanding of itself or to the formation of sensible public policy focused on harms reduction. As we all heard on Woman's Hour yesterday.

It's just the merry-go-round of a neoliberal academy passing money around a chumocracy of elites to spend time gazing at their self-regarding navels. If it was, say, confined to Wokeistan Central at Goldsmiths, that would be one thing. But it's everywhere. And useful public policy is a desert because of this extreme narcissism.

And I say this as someone who actually does think sociology could have something of use to offer.

I'm going back to reading about ultra realist criminology. Far more interesting than Sally's shrill classism.

It's about looking at and deconstructing the stereotypes that constrict our daughters and prevent them from playing football

You know what's a fast track towards preventing them playing football (or any other sport)? Making them play against boys who identify as girls and having to share the same changing spaces and showers afterwards.

It would bring a great deal of fairness to participatory research if they just have each of the subjects 50 grand.

How many “pregnant men” have there even been? They must be getting about 50K per research subject.

And worthy of critique.