The message is getting through

Good grief.

in Center Parcs, lake district; there are mixed gender changing rooms. but you can still of course change in a private cubicle.

Are you saying that sort of thing is creating a risk?

If the meter reading gentleman does complain to the school they'll probably dismiss it as the bigoted opinions of a (presumably) straight white male, just another 'gammon'.

Why is something that very few people want being pushed on all of us?

You are not alone in wondering this.

Everything is NOT mixed sex in Scandinavia/nordics! (Dh is a native.)

I have never, ever been in a mixed sex toilet or change in any country there. Almost all changing and showers etc are single sex and open plan - no cubicles. There are some mixed sex saunas in Finland I think but not widespread.

Why is something that very few people want being pushed on all of us?

I don't think these Swedish (Nordic) blokes know how to behave:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3276075-Sweden-historical-open-air-bath-removes-sex-barriers-for-queer-day-women-driven-home-by-ogling-men

And no, everything is not mixed sex in Scandinavian countries.

Not just in Africa. It's a significant problem. There's also a report re the risk to women in unisex facilities here. Some good person will link it.

Prob the NM Oracle that is R0wan

I'm always slightly dubious about the kind of happy nirvana Scandinavian countries are often portrayed as being. The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo's title originally was Men Who Hate Women. I doubt that solely come from Stieg Larsson's imagination.

but haven't the Nordic countries been using gender-neutral toilets and changing rooms for years without any problems?

Ah. Whattaboutery.

What about the girls and women in Africa raped because they don't have access to secure toilets?

Traceyracer, I don't know how well it works in Nordic countries. Maybe Nordic boys are brought up differently and Nordic girls are therefore happy to share facilities. But girls in UK schools don't. on the whole, want to share with the boys.

Those girls are very lucky they can come home. Many schools don't allow kids off-campus during the school day

And what do you bet that if he goes into his girls' school and tells them that the children are using his home loo, the first move will be to ban the girls from doing so as a safeguarding measure?

but haven't the Nordic countries been using gender-neutral toilets and changing rooms for years without any problems?

LikeDust

"Wasn't there a thing in Scotland about a group putting the government insignia on their materials without permission? I think they went out into schools. "

LGBT Youth Scotland. The group who sumitted their response to the Women and Equalities commission, saying they supported crossdressers as being transgender.

Also who in their documents on their website say:

• Parents don't need to be told if a child speaks to them re gender conflict concerns

• Parents don't need to be told if a male born transisitioning child is in overnight accomodation with female born children
• If girls object to transgirls in their accomodation/changing rooms, they should be reeducated about diversity, kindness etc.

Here's an article showing their 'error' in claiming that their document has Scottish government endorsement. They are currently in 60 Scottish schools, teaching the children the contents of this document as part of their 'LGBT Schools Charter', which is available on their website. It's worth a read.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/lgbt-campaign-group-u-turn-12876161

I agree with him, but its not just on the SNP. Is there any other political party that disagrees? Im a floating voter (voted SNP last time) but im a bit worried about their new LBGT school stuff. If it is promoting no bullying, accepting others are different then fine, if its telling children that they can change sex then thats a big fat no. But who else to vote for?

Those girls are very lucky they can come home. Many schools don't allow kids off-campus during the school day - my eldest's school is completely self-contained, once you go through that gate you don't come out til the bell goes at 3.15pm. At least she would have loos in Sainsbury's across the road for the end of school, though - one school I work at has their entire campus virtually in a wood on the edge of the moors and it's a 15min walk in the wrong direction to home to the nearest, rather isolated, public toilet.

I can see the reasons for the fortressing of schools - controlling access in and out is a huge improvement to safeguarding. But with mixed sex toilets there is then literally no sanctuary from the opposite sex within school. That can't be right or fair.

It IS in the building regulations for schools. The planning is then agreed by the Councils. It is the Councils that people should be complaining about, but has anyone done that?

Wasn't there a thing in Scotland about a group putting the government insignia on their materials without permission? I think they went out into schools. Basically lying and cheating.

I twinned our loo at home, one of the reasons was for women and girls' safety as well as the hygiene issues.

One of the things that's been at the back of my mind, is the situation in hospitals - are we really heading for mixed sex wards? May pick this up on one of the older threads.

The thing that baffles me is that, given that it's the law that schools have single sex toilet provision, why don't the people commissioning, designing and building schools seem to know this? Shouldn't it be written into building regs for schools?

By all means provide some properly designed gender neutral loos in the mix.

It's funny, isn't it. We always say "it's not about the toilets" because we want to draw people's attention to women's prisons, women's refuges, women's sports. But in the end it is about the toilets, because all women and girls use toilets, whereas most of us don't go to prison/use refuges/play sport.

I agree. I think toilets are an issue because they’re universally used.

psychology.org.au/publications/inpsych/2010/august/nisbet

I doubt it's just the girls either although they have the added worry of dealing with periods.

Not a small problem, even without unisex toilets being added into the equation:
www.tes.com/news/nine-ten-girls-fear-period-shaming

The message is getting through to the general public but I'm not sure enough people are letting their elected representatives know how strongly they feel in order to influence policy.

This has been my experience with close to 100% of the men I have discussed this with, although most of them are guarded (same as women) because of fear of being accused of bigotry.
The public is with us on this, everyone is just scared to speak out.