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Woman's Hour Tues 20/11/18 "Why is the current debate about sex and gender so often called “toxic” - we hear from @Bex_Stinson and @helenlewis"

184 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 20/11/2018 09:16

twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1064804876327235584

OP posts:
scepticalwoman · 20/11/2018 10:29

Brilliant discussion. Helen Lewis was clear, assertive and took no prisoners while being prepared to criticise some things (ie dead naming) that she wasn't happy with. On the back of deadnaming she immediately highlighted the issues about crime and Karen White - so a very skilled performance.

LikeDust · 20/11/2018 10:29

The deadnaming thing was a bit Hmm

I suppose she was saying it's transphobic if it is deliberately used to be hurtful. Whereas I think 'deadnaming' is essential in some situation to be clear about who a person is and the motives for what they do.

As long as you don't label and dismiss all incidences of the latter as being the former then perhaps....

breastfeedingclownfish · 20/11/2018 10:28

I think Helen has shifted off the fence. .

I respect that she is trying to walk the line of not trying to hurt feelings, while at the same time acknowledging that women are being constantly told not to hurt feelings and to be nice.

She outlined the problems well and it's a good start for Radio 4 listeners. Brava.

MarshaBradyo · 20/11/2018 10:24

I like Helen's position as not too hard line, feels quite close to how I feel

ProfessoressWoland · 20/11/2018 10:22

What I got from Bex is "let's dismantle safeguarding, because it hurts the feelings of a minority group who are so fragile that they can't be in the same studio with someone who disagrees with them".
And that's supposed to be a healthy inclusive approach?
Jane Garvey is handling this very well.

AbsintheFriends · 20/11/2018 10:22

JG's position is pretty clear, but she's hosting the arguments brilliantly and giving space to both sides of the argument. Thank you Jane. I imagine it's a difficult line to tread (and dangerous, in the BBC.)

That was one of the best pieces I've heard on this. Lots of really interesting points raised and covered clearly.

NeurotrashWarrior · 20/11/2018 10:20

it's about contexts. It's truthful in the right context. And truth is important.

NoUnicornsToSeeHere · 20/11/2018 10:20

Helen brilliantly illustrating the conflict I feel between what-may-be-good-for-an-individual* and how-this-negatively-impacts-on-women and that it is possible to hold both those points of view...

*based on close experiences of people I have known from very young and have transitioned as adults

OunceOfFlounce · 20/11/2018 10:20

Almost chickened out of listening coz it would make me too angry but I'm so glad I'm tuning in. Phew!

Wrathofjurgenklop · 20/11/2018 10:19

Dead naming is cruel and hurtful.
Is it really?

NeurotrashWarrior · 20/11/2018 10:19

On Fence but slips in good points - enough to set seeds of thought.

NeurotrashWarrior · 20/11/2018 10:18

Good point; disagreement v transphobia. Grey areas.

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 20/11/2018 10:18

Bloody fence again

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 20/11/2018 10:18

Humm .. deadnaming

Sycamoreleaves · 20/11/2018 10:17

Love love Jane Garvey.

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 20/11/2018 10:16

Pow pow pow she's like rapid fire!

MarshaBradyo · 20/11/2018 10:16

Still admire JG over all this - she speaks very well
Agree on the line we would lose a huge cornerstone of feminism

breastfeedingclownfish · 20/11/2018 10:16

Helen doing brilliantly actually. Thanks Helen.

LikeDust · 20/11/2018 10:16

Helen Lewis is being great about this.

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 20/11/2018 10:16

Ooooh Helen's coming across very well!!

AbsintheFriends · 20/11/2018 10:15

Helen Lewis is EXCELLENT

arranfan · 20/11/2018 10:14

Trans bingo! Bex makes it personal! 'I'm not a danger to anyone'

I would argue that Bex implicit demands would:

dismantle safeguarding;
reinforces the danger of totalitarianism taking root because of the 'wrong think', language restrictions etc.

I regard these as deeply dangerous on a societal and political level.

Wrathofjurgenklop · 20/11/2018 10:13

Apparently trans people are too scared to appear on the radio.Hmm

JG is making sure Bex talks about TW's not trans people.

LikeDust · 20/11/2018 10:13

Maybe Bex you might make women feel less safe when you are in women's spaces.

Melamin · 20/11/2018 10:12

So - no debate then lol

That introduction reminded me so much of the Sky piece with Jess, where the voice over said that transwomen were shy and retiring and it was difficult for them to contact Jess...……….and we all knew how shy that person was a week later...…………...