Genuine question - not goady, I promise, I am GC myself..How do we safeguard boys (generally age 8+) in changing rooms and toilets?

Mostly it is making sure that changing room visits are only with a trusted male adult. That can be rearranging the schedule or just skipping the changing room and getting changed at home. Not always possible obviously. We are lucky to have family changing rooms at our local facility.

For bathroom visits, I take the stand by the door approach. Keep it open so you can hear. A long delay would necessitate invading the space.

Sorry not trying to make light of the issue, but I would think boys are less at risk than girls particularly by about secondary age. Its why I would never object to younger boys coming into the ladies with mums. Teaching children to use their instincts (boys or girls for that matter) is a good start.

Key point Scotsheather is that its male predators and violence that is the problem and that men need to step up to help solve this

Scotsheather suggest you read the thread, but to summarise yes boys are at risk, there are reasons the risk is lower but still a risk.

Mums of boys have various strategies they use, it's not perfect but the vast majority (possibly all genuine) mums of boys on this thread don't see mixed sex toilets as the right answer.

Stars Getting DS to check the loo is empty first and give me a thumbs up sounds like a good practical idea, thanks!

As far as wider solutions are concerned, I agree that asking women and girls to make room for tween boys is not appropriate.

Part of the reason I mentioned design of men's loos earlier is because FFS, why can't men see some change in their lives for a change?

Surely predators are only interested in women and girls though aren't they? Thats why we don't want them in our changing rooms.

Stop pretending to be naive. You’re as transparent as glass.

Um, certain predators very much do like little boys

Surely predators are only interested in women and girls though aren't they? Thats why we don't want them in our changing rooms. Boys are safe enough. But like OP I only have daughters so just guessing.

Boys 10+ are not going to agree to their mums chaperoning them in toilets.

We do what we can as mothers to mitigate the risk but we cannot solve the problem of them being at risk.

As feminists we know increasing the risk disproportionally for women and girls for a slight decrease in risk for tween and young teen boys is not the right or an acceptable answer.

So we're left with calling out the need for men to take some responsibility for male violence, and insisting on boundaries.

The only people who can address and resolve male violence is men.

Women cannot control nor influence what men choose to do.

Men should be responsibie for their own behaviour. Not us.

My son, when he was younger, would go in and check that there were no other men in there before he went to the loo. He'd come out and give me a thumbs up that it was empty and then I'd keep an eye on it for other people going in. If there was a choice, I'd always send him in where I could see a dad going in with his child. Not failsafe but better than nothing!

And chaperoning boys into the toilets is teaching them to be wary, if the only reason for a chaperone is to prevent them from attack.

I agree - and I think it is important to learn to be wary, sadly, for both girls and boys. I also think it can only do so much against an attack and therefore chaperoning is necessary.

There isn’t a conflict here. If people want facilities that mothers can go into with their 9/11/14 year old sons, those facilities can be created, and that can be done without removing single sex facilities.

But that doesn’t help unchaperoned boys. There would still need to be improvements in how male toilets are designed and used, if men are able to think up better solutions.

And chaperoning boys into the toilets is teaching them to be wary, if the only reason for a chaperone is to prevent them from attack.

Agree Scipio

Women are disproportionately goingto be the ones out with children of both sexes, and while they can safeguard their daughters by being present with them in the toilets up to teen years or however long they want, they can’t do so with their sons past the age of around 7 without difficulty.

I raised my son not to be inappropriate when in the ladies toilets and I teach him the pants rule etc, but I know from my experiences as a girl and woman how easy it is to freeze or be incapacitated when inappropriately approached. Even in my 20s, let alone aged 8. This makes me wary about him being alone in the men’s toilets.

I think interesting points have been raised about the design of men’s toilets making it difficult for women to keep an eye on their sons. I don’t think the solution is to say boys should all be allowed to troop into the women’s toilets up to whatever age. However, neither is it to suggest that boys just have to learn to be wary like girls, and that a mother wanting to protect him means she wants to put him ahead of women and girls.

Eight is usually the cut off point. Usually boys are ready to use the toilet and change without their mothers present well before this age, but 8 is good because it helps boys who aren't ready at 6 or 7.

It would have been inappropriate for my son to be in the ladies toilets and changing room at 9 or above. Boys certainly wouldnt be expected to change with girls at school at this age.

If I have to take DD 6 and DS 10 to separate toilets then I will obv take DD in with me and I have sent DS in to the men’s on his own IF and only if it looks busy and being used by lots of people (men) at the same time.
The few times it has been very quiet, like recently in a bus station, I have hovvered in the doorway in full view while he uses a cubicle. On balance the one or two other male users who may have felt discomfort with my presence has been unfortunate for them, but my DC’s safety is more important to me than their embarrassment or annoyance with my presence.

It is part of safeguarding to accept that children, young and old, pose a risk. That’s true in both male and female facilities.

Spartacus, honestly you are sounding a bit bonkers

Oh, such a common response - when a woman complains of discomfort on her behalf or that of girls just claim she is 'bonkers'.

In the UK, AFAIK, there is no law preventing a man using a woman's toilet or vice versa.
We only maintain these rules because of social niceties, habit, manners, custom, etc etc

So in theory, hardly ideal I know, and in the case of toilets only, a woman could take an older boy into the male toilets.

I generally wait outside and often have opened the door to look in and check on my DS.

Also, dynamic risk assessment about place

I talk to my son about what's right and wrong, the pants rule, to trust instincts, we ask "what would you do in this situation?" questions and he learns a martial art.

He only ever uses a cubicle.

Nowadays he probably has his phone with him too 🤢 but if he needed help, he could use that.

And those behaviours are terrible but there comes a point when you need to weigh up relative risk, and a 6yo alone in the men's changing room, surely to God, is more at risk than he could possibly pose in the women's.

But kids are a threat to other kids

Absolutely. And when I complained to a mother whose boy had just peered under my toilet door she just told me that 'that's what children do' - apparently I should just suck it up and hold any discomfort.

But over the age of 8 which is the cut off in toilets and changing rooms then you have to figure out a way of doing so which doesn't intrude on the comfort and safety of women and girls.
Yes, and I have explained up thread how I do that.

Spartacus, honestly you are sounding a bit bonkers. I'm not "immune" to danger, nor at boys at "immense risk" but they are, as small children, at some risk, yes.
Anyway I got to work..

Ok, 10 is pushing it. But 9 is the limit for at least one local pool so I'm hardly well out of the bounds of current practice. As for a 6yo being a sexual threat, well why not go the whole hog and let our 3yos go into the men's alone You are seriously suggesting that all 6yo boys be treated as potential sexual predators, as opposed to the tiny children that they are?

No one wants to admit it.

But kids are a threat to other kids.

It was a 7 yr old who.pulled my dds pants down.

It was a 6 /7 is old who poked dd in the chest and went "boobies"

As for a 10/11 year old on the changing room are you serious

Because women's and girls' feelings and safety count for NOTHING.