Genuine question - not goady, I promise, I am GC myself..How do we safeguard boys (generally age 8+) in changing rooms and toilets?

Well the dads cant come in the women's and past 8 they cant go in the mens.

Perhaps the parents could write to whoever and point out their locks are rather stiff. That's something i would do if I thought they were dangerous....

Other than that it's like I said. You cant cash in on the safety if the women's toilet whilst simultaneously making it no longer a woman's toilet.

And u said they need supervising up til yr 6. So of course I'm going to take it as meaning you think 11 is ok to bring in

That's taking the piss

Yeah, my son's 24 actually. Think we somehow managed to enable him to grow into a very independent, responsible man. And I've repeatedly said I'm not talking about an 11 year old.

Also I didn't say anything about my son seeing a girl peeing. I said my daughter shouldn't have to see a woman peeing and nor should I have to see neither an adult nor a child peeing because they can't lock the door and are in the toilet on their own.

Well then I'd get working on makimg sure my 11 year old could stand still for 5 mins so at least the ds doesn't have to see a glimpse of a girl peeing....

So yes they could still just as easily wander off to peer under doors or whatever

Well no they can't because I can see their feet. If their foot disappeared then I would be out like a shot to see where they were.

But that's what women sometimes have to do.

Like when they have buggies and there's no baby change with a toilet.

Or the girls cant do the locks.

Well, I guess like mothers of boys these people will need to find another way of doing things.

Why should my daughter have to see another lady using the toilet? Or why should I have to see a girl using the toilet because she doesn't know how to shut the door?

What about everyone's privacy and dignity?

Or, you know, we could all just grow up a little bit and realise that from time to time we need to make accommodations for others?

But if think they require supervision even at 10/11 then you clearky can't trust them to stand still and do as asked cos other wise they'd be outside the door!

So yes they could still just as easily wander off to peer under doors or whatever

And they aren't supervised their parents the whole time are they.

Who aren't supervised?

When I took my children, or my niece and nephew, into the toilets I would ask them to "hold my door closed" by tucking their feet under the door. They were scared to lock the door so used to ask me to do this for them so they honestly believed I was doing the same. What I was actually doing was making sure that I knew where they were and that they hadn't wandered off.

But that's what women sometimes have to do.

Like when they have buggies and there's no baby change with a toilet.

Or the girls cant do the locks.

Overprotective007

I saw your earlier comment. Didn't want to comment so out of sync in my reply. I really can't find the right words to express what I want to say, my heart is hurting, thank you for sharing your story.

Friend/Family abuse of children will still have limited reporting because of the risk of the child victims being identified. Stranger on child abuse is less reported initially due to the belief in "Law" that children are unreliable witnesses or to avoid parent panic/community vigilantism.

Our kids deserve better.

I up until yr 6 so end of yr 5.

And girls shouldn't be leaving toilet doors open. That isn't pleasant for them or any other users of the toilets.

I've addressed the issue of changing rooms in my post above - changing rooms are easier to deal with by choosing a pool with family changing rooms or individual cubicles.

And they aren't supervised their parents the whole time are they.

Not unless they go in the cubicle with you which I'm guessing you wouldn't do cos you know...awkward...

By the way I am focusing more on toilets because I think these impact more on day to day life.

Changing rooms at swimming pools I only ever took the children on my own to those that I knew had family changing rooms. I could plan where we went and so had more control.

With toilets you need them wherever you are and so have little choice about what you can do.

As other posters said that has a big impact on the lives of mothers of boys.

And girls. You are forgetting girls. Their class mates who don't want to be seen naked or in a position with their underwear round their ankles.

Yr 6? That's 11 ffs. Sure bring your 11 year olds on who are taller than many women I know.

Are you serious? They are months away from getting the bus to scholl by themselves if you can't leave then outside a toilet door while you pee you have failed massively as a parent .

And you are worried about doors? Well what abiut girls who may not be able to unlock the door so pee with it open. Hkw uncomfortable and humiliated they woukd be if you walked in with your 9 yr old son they go to school with...

Sorry Gileswithachainsaw I'm not nit picki ng but I realky can't understand what you've written.

Which is it? Girls do it to so it's not safe for your boys either or it's safer hence why your boys need to come in?

It's safer because the child, regardless of sex, is being supervised by their parent. That's it. And I'm not only talking about safety from an attack by a stranger but safer than being left outside unsupervised and also because they are with an adult who can help them lock or unlock the door if necessary or reach the sink to wash their hands etc.

Look at the post above from someone who got locked in the toilets for 30 minutes. That happened to a grown adult. Would an 8 year old child have coped with that? I doubt it.

Honestly, up until year 6 I think children do need closer supervision. How that happens I don't know but my guess is with a liberal dose of common sense from the general public rather than acting like an 8 year old boy poses a risk to a grown woman.

You have consistently minimised girls' discomfort for a start.
I don't think I have at all. I have not seen girls upset by the presence of young boys, with their mum, using the ladies toilets, ever. I very much doubt that it even registers.

I think that many posters here are applying their adult feelings about having grown men use the ladies toilets, to very little boys. They are not the same thing at all.

The behaviour is not ok from anyone .

But statistically it's alot less likely from girls. I've never seen that.i have however seen boys walk in unnecessarily and by unnecessarily I mean the parent wasn't in there nor were they requiring getting changed into the girls changing room.

Girls and women have to take the behaviour of other girls and women in communal single sex facilities. We deal with it/call it out but we do have to accept the small number of wine and girls who do these things in our statistics and as a whole. But just because some girls do stuff doenst mean boys and men should be allowed in.

And no i don't believe girls should be allowed to hit boys either. I don't think violence is acceptable any way round . And that's what I have told my dds.

I don't see how you can argue taht you wany your biys in the girls changing rooms because it's safer then bit understand the reason it's safer is because there are no biys over 8 in it.

Which is it? Girls do it to so it's not safe for your boys either or it's safer hence why your boys need to come in?

I'd like to add, someone raised the point that random stranger attacks are rare but make the headlines because attacks from friends/family are more common, our experience was a stranger and didn't make any headlines. It was dealt with and police were involved but that's as far as it went. No court or publicity involved.

Agree Giles about kids peeking/crawling underneath toilet doors. Point being though, is it the fault of the kids? Or maybe just crappy parenting? If kids are not taught basic acceptable social behaviour or not reprimanded when they misbehave whose fault is it?

In fairness though kids, especially the younger ones, can be unpredictable - actually no some kids are sometimes set in their ways - but even with those kids there's always a possibility of a random behaviour, completely from left field. What matters is the parents response.

You have consistently minimised girls' discomfort for a start.

.I don't care if you are a boy or a girl I think any kid crawling under toilet doors should be read the root act.
Yet interestingly you want boys removed from the ladies in case they do this, yet the only example of children doing it here are of girls, who are welcomed in despite them violating the privacy and dignity of the PP.

I am sorry about the treatment meted out by your brother but I do think that has biased how you view all young boys. There is a very real danger of creating a self fulfilling policy - if boys grow up treated by women as if they are inherently abusive or dangerous well, they might as well be that because they are already seen as that.

In my experience boys are treated far more harshly and have higher expectations placed on them. Girls are allowed far more lee way in their behaviour. The only difference that I've noticed is that boys can get away with being more boisterous than girls - by this I mean allowed to run around more or to not sit still. I've never seen them allowed to be more violent or spiteful (the opposite in fact. The old " you should never hit a girl" yet if a girl hits a boy then it's laughed off or excused by adults.

There's lots of the above that you have minimised or chosen not to address too.

Sorry, such as? I thought that I was addressing the points raised.

Point out what I haven't answered and I will reply, and then maybe you can do the same with my points.

I never said boys have it all easy

And I grew up in the exact opposite environment. My brother was violent towards me my mum was powerlesspathetic to deal with it and Everyone was too busy thinking what a sweet little boy he was.

Neither girls or boys are born with instincts or set roles in life. It comes from socialization. Which is why we need to look at every aspect of that.

Yes there are exceptions to the rules but you don't
Have to have read that many threads on MN to see boy behaviour trivialized . And no don't think it does them any favours at all. I don't care if you are a boy or a girl I think any kid crawling under toilet doors should be read the root act. I wouldn't give a crap if anyone thought one kid might be less mature than the other at that point. Piss off or child friendly equivilant is universally understood

Shit, that sounds terrifying YetAnotherSpartacus

It was. I dine out on the story now. The punchline was that instead of the 5 pieces of toilet paper that one was given when one handed over one's cash I had access to her stash - some of which I secreted in my bag for later. Lucky they didn't lock me away.

Interestingly you haven't addressed any of the points that I made though

There's lots of the above that you have minimised or chosen not to address too.

I do see differences in how we expect children to behave but I don't see them as anti girl and pro boy as you do. I think boys also have a rough time of it. Look at gender roles - it is way more acceptable for girls to step out of traditional gender stereotypes - to wear trousers or "un girly" clothes, to play with all toys not just "girls" toys, to choose any career that they want or to be a SAHM if they want. It would not go unnoticed if a boy chose to wear a dress or played with dolls or decided that he wanted to stay home and raise children. It's only fairly recently that it's been seen as "normal" for men to become nurses. Certainly when I trained the number of male nurses in my hospital was less than 10 (and they were usually called Dr by the patients). Then there's the expectation that "boys don't cry" or, are tougher than girls or that men will be sent to confront possible intruders if you hear a noise in the night. Boys don't have it all easy you know.

If I had to choose I would far rather be a woman than a man. I have never felt hindered by being a female. I have always had lits of choices from clothes,to jobs to my lifestyle. I chose to be a SAHM because I just wanted to be with my children, to enjoy them, even though I earned more than my husband at the time and me staying at home meant that he worked 6 days a week to support us.

Interestingly you haven't addressed any of the points that I made though.