Genuine question - not goady, I promise, I am GC myself..How do we safeguard boys (generally age 8+) in changing rooms and toilets?

I've popped onto a feminism board to chat to people about how we can make vulnerable children safer from predatory men. Where else should I be discussing this, frumpy? Style and Beauty

Well, this is mums net. So any of the main boards would make sense. But as feminism isn't actually about protecting males. I don't see why you'd think this was the place to put it.

Well, on school trips we would make them go in pairs or groups, and loiter outside. That's all you can do

Well, mine didn't have a dad to speak of, so, I took him in the women's until 8 or so, and after that sort of hovered outside, yelling " hurry up"! if he was in there a bit long.
I told him never, ever to use a public toilet in a park, and always took him to the big shopping centre toilets in town where they have a (female) attendant outside and it's always busy.
When swimming we went to one place with a changing village, or, if it was the other one with single sex I would hang about just outside and he knew I would be there.

It is a worry-boys are vulnerable too. Sadly places where men are become automatically less safe for physically vulnerable people.
I have never cared if I go in a changing room or whatever and there's a 10 year old boy (I know that's a huge MN no-no!) because I understand why.

We can better safeguard boys by getting the message through to men, as a class, that safeguarding children is everyone’s responsibility at all times. This needs to be done with education.

I don't think anyone here is saying men's toilets are some sort of unicorn utopia for boys. You don't wait loudly outside the door of a unicorn utopia.

Yes, men are dangerous. hence people trying to keep their sons out of male spaces until they are physically a bit bigger. I think 9 is the age most people mention on the bathroom threads.

Have you got a point?

It is an excellent question and I ask that myself. By DS is 7 now and he is always with me (toilets, changing rooms...), when dad is not available.
I choose mixed changing rooms where possible. I won't let him go into public men's toilet without dad. Not sure how I will proceed in the future. I might just not give a f* and accompany him into the men's once he hits 8 or 9.

There was a case a few years back in the region I then lived, when a man raped a preteen at the pool, so I may be a bit obsessed. I don't care.

What alternative do you suggest OP? Make everything unisex to then spread the risk to girls? That's basically what unisex toilets are about. It's admitting men are dangerous so passing the risk to females.

I dpn't take my DDs to the toilet, they go without me

So why couldn’t a DS?

Sorry, I’m now a little pissed off. This whole ‘problem’ is because we’re working on the assumption that childcare is ‘women’s work’ and thus children both male and female will be with a female carer. WTF are these boys fathers? Why aren’t they taking them to the loo?

Well it's not an assumption, it's a fact. The vast majority of SAHP are women and the vast majority of single parents are women. Most marriages end in divorce. It's just true that in most cases it will be a woman with the child.

I would say that male only spaces are not safe for little boys. However, you can teach them to go in pairs, or make a very visible presence outside waiting for them, and train them to shout out.
Male on male violence is a problem. But just because that is an acknowledged problem, that's no reason to make the women's bogs equally unsafe. It's a reason to tackle male violence.

Mine is with his Dad or other male relative

All the time? DD frequently goes out with DH. They're swimming today. And I'm off for two weeks on business soon so they'll be on their own reconnaissance then as well. I assume boys also hang out with female relatives.

Frumpy, you haven't answered how boys are safeguarded in male toilets.

I very clearly said they aren't. Which is precisely why we let them stay in the women's for so long.

I can't, unfortunately, stop the risks. I do know that my sons are statistically far less likely to be sexually assaulted than my daughter and so yes, I will keep spaces safe for her. For safeguarding and also dignity.

Mine is with his Dad or other male relative.

There are very good reasons to worry about young boys in toilets. Not least some are used for sex. And single cubicle 'family' type toilets and changing rooms are great for safety. But that is an argument for more provision, not changing single sex to mixed.

My son has been using male toilets and changing rooms since he was 6. But I always made sure that I could be nearby and they were busy. Think more debenhams on a Saturday afternoon than one in a park after dark.

But what is the alternative, some men are vulnerable into adulthood, does that mean they should be in the ladies?

Sorry, I’m now a little pissed off. This whole ‘problem’ is because we’re working on the assumption that childcare is ‘women’s work’ and thus children both male and female will be with a female carer. WTF are these boys fathers? Why aren’t they taking them to the loo?

I'm hearing an argument that male toilets are safe spaces for little boys as they won't be used to prey on children.
I'm going to respond in good faith.
The argument is that male spaces are f9r males. The majority of males are safe decent men who are just there to change. Those safe, decent men will also act as a deterrent to predatory men, so male children should be safe.
Female spaces are for females so any male accessing those has some kind of motive they are putting ahead of females need for their own space. It could be the males desire to be recognised as a woman. Or it could be a sexually motivated desire to access vulnerable women (voyeurism more likely than assault). This makes it a very different scenario