Trans Women Should Be Allowed In Women Only Spaces

Does being trans confer some sort of safety mechanism? How else can the data be interpreted?

It means you are likely to move in different circles and have different relationships. What do you think is being missed exactly?

EarlyWalker more stats for you...

Hopefully I've done my math right!

NZ's population is 4,760,022.
The sex division is almost 50/50.
So dividing the population in half makes 2,380,011 males out of 4,760,022.

Studies have shown that transgender males are approximately 0.2% of the population. 0.2% of 2,380,011 is 4,760.

According to "reports obtained under the Official Information Act"* as of 2018 there are 25 transgender prisoners incarcerated in NZ prisons, with no transfers to male prisons (so we can assume that none are likely to be transitioned FtMs, and more likely to be MtFs.) The incarcerated 25 is 0.5% of 4,760.

NZ has 2,380,011 females out of 4,760,022

There are a total of 774 female prisoners incarcerated in NZ as of 2018. That makes 0.03% of the total population of females. A MUCH lower percentage.

Out of the 2,380,011 males in NZ, there are 9,661 male prisoners incarcerated presently - 0.4%, which lines up almost exactly with the transgender numbers.

*www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1804/S00232/implications-of-changes-to-births-act-for-female-inmates.htm

Earlywalker

pombear I don’t think that’s quite the reason you’re staying away now is it?

Yes. It is.

If you don't like my reasoning, that's up to you. But that's exactly why I'm staying away from this thread. I know why I have and I stated it here. You can't redefine the reason why I've avoided it.

I'm sure many other readers will take away what they wish.

I think that speaks volumes given how vocal you usually all are.

Many posters, for many, many months have debated and discussed statistics, evidence, etc. Many choose where to expend their energies right now, so I wouldn't crow about this thread that the silence represents much other than people being tired!

given how vocal you usually all are

You lump everyone into an 'other' 'you' group here. Which is, in itself, telling.

Good night to you.

Earlywalker - telling me to stop playing the victim as it’s exhausting?? Are you ok? You’re sounding a tad dramatic, maybe you need an early night.

Not stopped them posting on other threads has it?
My kids are in bed by 7 and my partner is working away so I have nothing but time and wine. Maybe I should get a cat.
Doesn’t explain why no one could answer it on other threads but if that’s the case I shall wait and I’m sure they’ll all be along with the answers.

So am off to do them better things 🍺🍺😉😉

Naw early it’s just cos it’s a Friday night. Ppl relaxing being with their kids an£ partners and cats

That’s all.
So,basically got better things to do

Does Bespin even post on these boards anymore? Haven’t seen her around for a while.
Anyway I’ve already responded to the rest of your post if you have a look back.
R.e your question - is it ok to question transwoman in our spaces. Absolutely, question away as I’ve said so many times. Just don’t use false statistics in the process.

pombear I don’t think that’s quite the reason you’re staying away now is it? You’re all (mostly) intelligent woman that understand the statistics do not match your narrative and I believe most woman reading this will understand what I’m saying even if they disagree with the point of view I’m coming from.
I have not once on this thread said transwoman are woman, and I’ve said several times Self ID is ridiculous.
I (and others) have merely questioned statistics that are presented as ‘fact’ so often on these boards as some kind of trump card but as of yet no one has been able to prove me wrong.
I think that speaks volumes given how vocal you usually all are.

Do you actually think it would be OK, helpful and great for men who purport to be women to be allowed into spaces historically preserved for women who have suffered due to the actions of men?

Have said a million times over that I don't agree with self ID.

Bespin

Seeing as 99.1% of sexual crimes are committed by men and 48% of transwoman are in prison for sexual crime compared to a miniscule percentage of women, it's OK for us to not want males in female spaces.

Seeing as cross-dressing is the number one paraphilia in sex offenders, and seeing as a man cross-dressing even only sometimes makes them a transwoman according to stonewall and seeing as "transwomen are women no debate" I think it's OK for us to question whether or not we even want transwomen in women's spaces.

medium.com/@evastanford/transwomen-sexual-offenders-a-closer-look-6c507d9e2414

End of a long week. And I'm tired. So not I'm not up for engaging with academic talk.

I have a feeling that many regular posters, like me, may be avoiding this thread not because of KiBob's admirable quest for stats to debate their point academically.

But because at the basis of any discussion is that transwomen are transwomen.

By nature of the word, they are not female. Otherwise, we would not be having this discussion.

Most of us are now aware of the tsunami of an agenda pushing for transwomen (as above) to be able to access women's spaces.

And many of us are fed up of the constant push to nudge, budge, and appeal to statistics, female socialisation, etc. What about this? How about this statistic?

I know transrights activists don't like Iris Child's poem, but this thread reminds me of it:
irischild.blogspot.com/2018/09/i-will-not-say-it-tran-i-am.html

EW sorry to hear you're exhausted by the comments of an oppressed group
Are you talking about woman? What an odd thing to say. Are you struggling that hard to prove me wrong that you have to get the violin strings out, bloody hell.
I am a woman (the vagina kind) and I would never suggest someone can’t question or debate me because of it - not all woman are weak you know, as a woman I would be offended if you said that on my behalf.

You’re still not getting it are you? I could set up a website today called ‘womancrimeuk’ I could post every story about a woman criminals and then just one or two about men. You could then take this data and say ‘woman are 10000x more likely to be in prison than men!’
It is not a satisfactory way to get data.

they are the conviction counts per year, for specific crime types.

That were published in the media.

TCUK is a list of all convicted criminals posted in the media that are trans. Not ideal, best I could do.

Well that will be conclusive then because everything published in the media is true, correct and factual.

I didn’t discredit the actual numbers.
MOJ have confirmed the numbers as 100 transwoman and 25 transmen. The ministry of justice is the only place that has no bias and can’t knowingly falsify statistics.
The numbers of long term prisoners are there in black and white. I discredited any assumption of a percentage based on these numbers.

chewy
Practice what you preach. Don’t be one of those that gets as good as you give and then plays the victim. It’s exhausting.

It’s not fine to say I don’t give trans men a second thought. It’s insulting.

Yes ki I’ve commented on your spreadsheet, I’m actively telling you that statistics given by the ministry of justice and fair play for woman are more factually correct than a website called ‘transcrime’ that picks and chooses which crimes to track. Is that really that hard to understand?

ChewyLouie
I understand that, for you woman are the concern and therfore transwoman Are the issue. It’s fine that you don’t give transmen a second thought but it’s not really fine to say that TRA only consider transmen when they want to ‘throw them under the bus’ in reference to myself (I’m clearly not a TRA) when in realty, the GC woman in this debate don’t consider them either - and I’m not just talking about criminalising them.

So...... transmen might be being ignored by women. Why? Well, because women don’t recognise that other women may want to be recognised as male so they can gain access to boys in the same way that predatory men want to gain access to girls. Wow. Triple 🤦‍♀️

KiBob why don’t you respond to my earlier comment about your statistics.

If transwoman and transmen as a population percentage sit at 4:1 as per your statistics and the prison ratio of transwoman to transmen is also at a ratio of 4:1 as per MOJ and FPFW statistics, where do you come to the conclusion that transmen commit crime at a far lower rate than do transwoman ?