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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Women Should Be Allowed In Women Only Spaces

341 replies

KiBob · 18/11/2018 16:18

I posted a few days ago that I need help arguing a case on the debating website Kialo. Thanks to your suggestions I've got one claim accepted that I was struggling with.

I'm now trying to get a new claim past admins.

As a supporting claim to:

"Allowing anyone who identifies as female into women-only spaces makes those spaces worse for cis women".

I put this:

"Trans women are 6 times more likely to commit a crime and 18 times more likely to commit a violent crime compared to female controls as found by this study In Sweden in 2011". With a link to this study:
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Admin have responded:

"Hm, interesting link. However, the results don't differentiate between trans men and trans women, and also state this: "Transsexual individuals were at increased risk of being convicted for any crime or violent crime after sex reassignment (Table 2); this was, however, only significant in the group who underwent sex reassignment before 1989." - so this might be a bit outdated - 30 years is pretty long.
Further up, in the Abstract, under results it also says "Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls."

Can you point me to the exact place where you get your numbers? Thanks!"

Help!

OP posts:
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ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 02:06

Especially as I'm much more likely to be murdered than you are.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 02:05

But using your argument I could say I don't want to be incarcerated with certain ethnic minorities who are more likely to murder me.

FadingMint · 25/11/2018 01:58

There is no reason to segregate black women and white women and brown women! We are all women - black or white or brown we are all women. We are not men!

There is a reason to segregate males and females, because of proven male violence against women.

Scrumplestiltskin · 25/11/2018 01:54

Black female commit crime at a higher rate so the same argument could be applied.
ScottCheggJnr show me studies that show black women sexually assault white women at a higher rate than vice versa.

Also: sexual crime rates are relevant to sex, because over 95% of sexual crime is committed by a male, generally against females. This is NOT the case in regards to race.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:49

And yet nobody had answered the wuestion why crime rates can be applied to gender discussions but not ethically to race ones....

The fact that you call me a racist for even highlighting this point is further proof that your crime rate argument would be deemed unacceptable when applied to another class.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:46

There is no reason to segregate black women and white women.

Black female commit crime at a higher rate so the same argument could be applied.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:45

...which it largely seems to on here.

Scrumplestiltskin · 25/11/2018 01:45

There is no reason to segregate black women and white women. There is a reason to segregate males and females.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:45

Your point might make some sense if class analysis only focused on sex.

FadingMint · 25/11/2018 01:43

The point is that that women of all colours are still women!

And men are men. And women are women.

FadingMint · 25/11/2018 01:38

You are reduced to word salad! Scot!

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:37

I repeat: what kind of people are more likely to be in need of medical care for pregnancy and childbirth? Women? Or transwomen?

What's your point?

I could ask which group is 4x more likely to be attacked by a stranger and much more likely to be murdered.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:35

It is rather convenient through that you seem happy to condemn the groups you're prejudiced against (men and transfolk) for things which you wouldn't dare castigate an ethnic minority for.

FadingMint · 25/11/2018 01:34

I repeat: what kind of people are more likely to be in need of medical care for pregnancy and childbirth? Women? Or transwomen?

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:33

Ok, I admit defeat. It's clearly considered ok to hold trans people to different standards than other demographics.

Scrumplestiltskin · 25/11/2018 01:31

Please, ScottCheggJnr, give up. Your racist attempt at making a point failed miserably.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:31

You're transphobic then. Wink

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:30

Can't explain why? Ok then...

FadingMint · 25/11/2018 01:30

Not a diversion, dear little ScottCheggJnr

You are a misogynist and a racist. Your posts prove this.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 01:22

Your blatant racism is getting very familiar from you, and very very tedious.

And here it is again. The diversion tactic.

If you can't answer my original question, then perhaps you'd at least care to explain why it's racist to apply your logic to another protected class to see how it holds up?

Oh, and by the way, what are you doing to help fight the racism displayed by your class seeing that misogyny is apparently the responsibility of all men as a class.

Study: White college women are less likely to to help a black woman at risk of rape

www.google.com/amp/s/www.psypost.org/2017/03/study-white-college-women-less-likely-help-black-woman-risk-rape-48171/amp

Scrumplestiltskin · 25/11/2018 01:07

ScottCheggJnr that dubious claim is irrelevant, considering it's in regards to black men not black women.

FadingMint · 25/11/2018 01:06

ScottCheggJnr
Your blatant racism is getting very familiar from you, and very very tedious.

Apart from that: men are men, and women are women.

If you are in any doubt: then just ask yourself who would be most likely to be in need of pregnancy and childbirth health care,.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 00:57

I actually don't think self-ID is a great idea, not least because there are better alternatives. However, using an argument that would be unacceptable when applied to other classes seems a bit disingenuous and is likely what is causing so many people to disregard the GC viewpoint.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 00:52

Within the period the study looked at, that is.

ScottCheggJnr · 25/11/2018 00:52

I believe that most crime is intra-racial, not inter-racial.

Maybe, but I remember reading a study from the US which looked at interracial rape. I forgot the exact figures, but in that particular city there had not been one conviction of a white man raping a black female, but there were many instances recorded of the opposite - it was either 300 or 3000 I think.

I have no racial prejudice at all, but there needs to be consistency in the measures we apply to different protected classes.