Trans Women Should Be Allowed In Women Only Spaces

OP I think the transcrime data was painstakingly compiled from media reports.

KiBob You 've missed out one step - showing the evidence that transwomen in women's spaces commit a disproportionate number of offences. There is no good evidence.

What offences are we talking? Because we've no crimed voyeurism and indecent exposure just with TWAW,

KiBob You 've missed out one step - showing the evidence that transwomen in women's spaces commit a disproportionate number of offences. There is no good evidence.

It is impossible for transwomen to be in women only spaces since their presence means they are no longer women only spaces. By entering the space that space immediately becomes a mixed sex space.

It’s up to those advocating change to provide conclusive data.

THIS.

I think in the absence of reliable or conclusive data, it is not appropriate to state your own conclusion as fact.

It’s up to those advocating change to provide conclusive data.

ucicorrections.seweb.uci.edu/files/2013/06/Transgender-Inmates-in-CAs-Prisons-An-Empirical-Study-of-a-Vulnerable-Population.pdf

20.5% of trans inmates registered sex offenders.

I think in the absence of reliable or conclusive data, it is not appropriate to state your own conclusion as fact.
Based on the BBC fact check, I will also say that the proportion noted is based solely on trans inmates serving a longer prison sentence, so more likely to be for serious crimes (such as sexual offenders)
I agree that the number is high, I also note that the data is based on self ID and basically relying solely on the word of a convicted criminal and that in its own right, is ludicrous.
Putting myself in a rapists mind, facing maybe 4 years imprisonment, I’m not surprised they would claim to be transgender to try and get closer to woman.
Another reason why self id is ridiculous and does not belong in prison or anywhere frankly.

I’ll post the California prison study
Thank you.

One of my greatest concerns with the identification of trans women as women is that it makes collections of statistics almost impossible. How can we make evidence based decisions, if the decisions we make prevent the collecting of evidence?

I’ve read FPFW’s article and commented above that I couldn’t find anything that proves the claim that transwoman offend at the same rate as men, could you point this out for me? I see details of transwoman in prison (100 males) there is no data as to how many transwoman there are in the UK to back up that this is higher or lower as a percentage than men or woman.

I'll post the California prison study. But don't you think in the absence of any reliable data on how many MTFs there are, the relevant figure is the proportion of sex offenders within the MTF trans prison population compared to the men's one and the women's one?

100 Males to females

Ereshkigal

I’ve read FPFW’s article and commented above that I couldn’t find anything that proves the claim that transwoman offend at the same rate as men, could you point this out for me? I see details of transwoman in prison (100 males) there is no data as to how many transwoman there are in the UK to back up that this is higher or lower as a percentage than men or woman.
I’ve not read the Californian one, could you provide a link?

Someone who identifies as means they see themselves as/consider themselves to be.

There is no concrete evidence to support the claims that transwoman offend at the same rate as men, post Sweden 1988 so you will struggle to have any valid points that will be taken seriously to call for the full exclusion of all Transwoman.

There are. You are not informed. Who knew btw FPFW and a Californian prison study suggest that they actually offend at a higher rate.

"who says they identify"
"anyone who identifies"

I'm a little confused what is the difference between these two statements? I thought the working definition of "identifies" is "claims they are". There's no way to verify such a claim either way.

Imo I think it’s far easier to argue the point of ‘allowing anyone who says they identify as a female into woman only spaces will make those spaces worse for cis woman’

Stating anyone who identifies as a woman, applies to transwoman and not dangerous predators pretending to be a woman

There is no concrete evidence to support the claims that transwoman offend at the same rate as men, post Sweden 1988 so you will struggle to have any valid points that will be taken seriously to call for the full exclusion of all Transwoman.

Waiting for train so will be brief.

By your own ballpark figures transwomen show an offending rate twice that of women.

The fact check figures were showing that roughly 40/50% of known transwomen are in prison for sex/violent offences. Massively higher than the offender rate of men or women.

I brought up the fact-check because the number of transwomen (around 130 from memory) is significantly higher than the figure quoted in 16/17 report. I was very surprised at the increase.

Now IMO I don't actually believe that transwomen are a higher risk threat than men. I do believe predatory sexual offenders are claiming to be trans for various reasons.

Of course this is drifting from the op so sorry for the derail.

Ok train is late so not so brief sorry

I’m still very confused as to what the data proves...

So FPFW have confirmed 100 inmates who have declared themselves as MTF transgender in prison but do not hold a GRC (as this wouldn’t show on data?)

Statistics currently suggest around 650,000 transgender people in the UK. For arguments sake let’s split it 50/50 so its more in your favour as everything I’ve read suggests there are a lot more transwoman than transmen.

So 325,000 Transwoman in the UK, 100 in prison. So 0.02% of transwoman are in prisons.

3952 woman out of about 32 million in prison so as a percentage 0.012%

80,704 men out of about 31 million so as a percentage 0.26%.

I really don’t understand how any of the stats published by the BBC or FPFW prove that ‘trans woman continue to offend at the same rate as men and are the same risk as men’?

Could someone please post the link to the BBC fact check of those figures as I'm on the move and I feel a bit rude not linking as earlywalker came back and posted.

Thanks

Fair Play completed an FOI request. It does not make for comfortable reading for anyone who is concerned about women's rights.

fairplayforwomen.com/prison-data-confirmed/

Sorry I think we are at talking at cross purposes. I'm taking about the recent BBC fact check on the number of transwomen prisoners.

I haven't read the report you just posted but will do later. However I made the perhaps the incorrect assumption that your photo talks about people identifying as either male or female and not as their "sex" therefore classed them as trans men or women.

It's one reason why I asked for the report, so I can read the footnotes and definitions.

Oh I can see that this was published in November last year. If it's an annual report I should be able to see how the latest figures tally up with FOI rather soon.

Thanks again