Tomorrows Mail on Sunday Front Page

India Willoughby's perspective, concern and motivation is for India Willoughby. It also shifts and will shift again.

February 2018 interview described by Dr Nic Williams:

"Good Morning Britain again – being introduced by Piers Morgan. India will also be giving her views on the Women’s Aid story. This time up again an expert in the field; Karen Ingala Smith is the head of an amazing organisation called nia that provides services for women and children who have experienced male violence. (continues)

"That social conditioning affects us all as women – we see it in Karen, the expert in the room no less, as she waits for her turn while the males speak. I felt it inside me as I sat in the studio not wanting to interrupt or come over too aggressively. We see the male privilege that both Piers and India have grown up with pushing them on – allowing them to speak with such confidence on areas they know very little about. If we closed our eyes and just listened – there would be no doubt who was born male and who was born female around that table.

And then India pounces in for the killer blow, turning to Karen who had just dared to interrupt and give her views. India said “you accept that transgender women aren’t men, yeah?” “If I got beaten in a relationship would I be welcome?” Karen replies that India should have access to a specialist refuge for transwomen to an indignant India who declares “A specialist refuge – but they don’t exist”.

Let’s just unpack that for a minute. First, it is already the policy of some shelters, such as Women’s Aid, to allow male-born transwomen refuge on a case-by-case basis. India would not have no where to go. Secondly, how does India think specialised refuge’s for women came into existence? Women campaigned and fought for their existence that’s how. Something that the transgender community can and should be doing for themselves rather than expecting and demanding access to under-funded and over-stretched services that are not designed for their particular needs.

Without pausing to let Karen speak India then crossed a line – a line that has lost h all respect from me and I hope all the women watching – India dared to tell Karen that her website contains a list of crimes committed by men and that this was is a great demonisation.

“I feel really sorry for guys this year – I think they’ve had it really tough”.

(continues)
fairplayforwomen.com/thank-india-w-showing-us-women-perceive-transwomen-still-male/

Don't get me wrong R0wantrees, India clearly has a completely different opinon to the one we share overall, but i do think that she gets on a basic level that the pushback is happening through fear rather than hatered and it's being fuled by stonewall refusing civil debate and not answering the genuing questions.
It's this basic level of understanding that it's not a black and white issue people like Lily Madigan don't have.

Have just read this in a closed autism group discussing the article with one person saying they would have been classed as trans if a child now- "i was a tomboy, I wasn't stereotypically girly. I didn't like my body. I didn't identify with girls, or the women around me. I hated my periods and thought boys were better as they didn't get them." Response is that's not trans 😖 isn't it? Tbf there were a mixed response with quite a few parent's stating they were very concerned for their asd children.

And yet, she has openly expressed dissatisfaction with how they have done things.
Maybe stonewall will start to realise they need a new approach?

The petition to Stonewell has been running for some time. There are transsexuals on the original letter such as Rose Of Dawn who have a far more coherant position and get very little/no opportunity to speak publically as well as many other lesbians, gay men and bisexuals.
(the comments on the petition are really worth reading)

No doubt though if IW is now joining the challenge she'll be on ITV soon sharing her opinion.

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

urgh long tieing day.
:o

Hang on no you're right and I'm wrong

I don't understand sorry. 0.6% of 0.6% is 0.36% it's just over half of 0.6%

And yet, she has openly expressed dissatisfaction with how they have done things.
Maybe stonewall will start to realise they need a new approach?

I think India has always done her own thing tbh.

But Stonewall are hugely powerful, particularly with the government.

If India is on the outs with Stonewall, they will exclude India from the money to be made from the transgender movement.

There is no way that India will get a Police Inclusion Advisor post or anything of that ilk; you need to toe the Stonewall line to get those kinds of jobs.

Stonewall have it all sewn up. And dissent is not tolerated.

india Willoughby has flip-flopped from being anti gender self-id to advocating it in the Pink News article linked previously,

Being pro self ID doesn't mean she can't see the damage Stonewall has done for public relations, they are not mutually exclusive. Lots of people are growing more and more disillusioned at stonewalls behaviour, including those that support the right to self ID.
Makes you wonder just who exactly they are claiming to represent doesn't it?

Floral

Pfft. Nevermind all this convoluted outlandish conspiracy nonsense. I think it's time we all owned up to being responsible for chemtrails and government lasers starting wildfires, tbh. Frankly this human disguise is really started to itch over the top of my feminist lizard skin...

I know the thread has moved on but Moonsick, perhaps your DD and her friends might like to know that there are 37 yo skirt wearing SAHMs who play DnD (3.5 ed), Pathfinder, and MtG (and are quite pleased with some of their decks). And I was most definitely female last time I checked. Oh, and if they like PC games they should all play Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment which are both on GOG.com. Sorry, nerd derailment /end

I'm actually please India's called out stonewall, good for her.

India Willoughby has flip-flopped from being anti gender self-id to advocating it in the Pink News article linked previously,
(extract)
"I totally get why many women might have concerns about this, given there have been so many ridiculous over-the-top debates where the scenario of sex-offender in a dress is trotted out.

It just doesn’t bear up to scrutiny though. Honestly. Self-identification in no way incentivises someone to commit a sex offence. It doesn’t make it easier or more likely.

Waving a piece of paper or shouting “I’m a woman” is not going to buy any leniency from the police or courts.

I admit – I wasn’t convinced about self ID myself to begin with, but the evidence from around the world is irrefutable. I was categorically wrong, and fell for the hysteria.

Portugal, Ireland, Norway, Columbia, Malta, Belgium, Denmark and Argentina have or are adopting the same legislation – and there have been no spikes is assaults.

Women’s areas will not become dangerous places when the Gender Recognition Act is passed." (continues)

When IW went on This Morning with Posie Parker, she said something to the effect that this was all trans people.

Also (I'm pretty sure) at some point, like many other prominant trans rights spokespersons has said doesn't have a GRC.

This Morning with Posie Parker:

Celebrity Big Brother
IW "I am a real woman, I'm going to say it one more time so it penetrates" etc

I’m too busy assassinating people for Putin to have time to participate in any Christian fundie/rad fem/Daily Mail/neoliberal conspiracy.

That's nothing - I'm completely occupied causing the underachievement of the nation's boys.

I’m too busy assassinating people for Putin to have time to participate in any Christian fundie/rad fem/Daily Mail/neoliberal conspiracy.

AutumnCrow - that has to have been a Mumsnetter!

As for IW thinking that there's some unholy alliance going on between us and the MoS, don't forget that we're simultaneously man-hating radical feminists and in receipt of money from far-right American Christian groups. Given that kind of elasticity, it's absolutely no surprise to find us in league with the neoliberal, anti-feminist Mail on Sunday.

Next week in TRA fantasy land, expect Mumsnetters to be accused of having a hand in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi by the Saudis.

Is 'the story' IW is suggesting that Radfems from Mumsnet have duped the Mail on Sunday?

that seems extraordinarily unlikely- hopefully the MoS can defend themselves against this outlandish claim. Meanwhile, the tweet may send more visitors here, who are very welcome to see what people here are actually saying.

Stonewall have made this worse

Strange times when you agree with India and the mail on Sunday on one thread, albeit on different points.

India may self combust with the realisation that they share an opinion with many on MN.

Wonder if India has signed Jonny Best petition?

Stonewall have become a homophobic shambles, agreed.

OMG and now I’ve agreed with IW! She’s right about bloody Stonewall! World truly has gone effing mad

I'm actually please India's called out stonewall, good for her.

Stonewall have made this worse.

Yes their no debate stance has totally backfired, as was obviously going to happen.