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Original poster

Jordan Peterson thinks women who wear makeup and complain about sexual harrassment are hypocrites

115 replies

fizzthecat1 · 17/11/2018 12:05

Jordan Peterson has done an interview saying women who wear makeup are inviting sexual harassment as it's "sexually provocative". So basically telling his male audience that they are free to sexually harrass women and they're basically asking for it because of something as innocent as makeup. I just can't with this man. He is so dangerous to society.

www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2018/06/04/jordan-peterson-fully-in-context-and-incredibly-sexist/

Here's his quote from the interview:

Peterson: Here’s a rule. How about no makeup in the workplace?

Vice: Why should that be a rule?

Peterson: Why should you wear makeup in the workplace? Isn’t that sexually provocative?

Vice: No

Peterson: It’s not?

Vice: No

Peterson: Well what is it then? What’s the purpose of makeup?

Vice: (unclear) like to just put on makeup, just to…

Peterson: Why? Why do you make your lips red? Because they turn red during sexual arousal. That’s why. Why do you put rouge on your cheeks? Same reason. How about high heels? They’re there to exaggerate sexual attractiveness. That’s what high heels do. Now, I’m not saying people shouldn’t use sexual displays in the workplace, I’m not saying that. But I am saying that that is what they’re doing, and that IS what they’re doing.

Vice: Do you feel like a serious woman who doesn’t want sexual harassment in the workplace, do you feel like if she wears makeup in the workplace, is being somewhat hypocritical?

Jordan Peterson: Yeah. I do think that.

OP posts:
BlytheSpiritsSpirit · 17/11/2018 14:19

He's turned into the leader of the incels. It's quite horrific.

CoolCarrie · 17/11/2018 14:11

Make up is surely a way of enhancing any “good “ features and covering up any features we may perceive as bad, or embarrassing like spots or acne, make up can improve confidence and well being, why the fuck does it always have to end up about men and their perceived ideas? He is a fucking arse!

PurpleOva · 17/11/2018 14:05

I see make up, especially in the context of the beauty industry of today as a big part of the patriarchy. So to play along with that, whilst simultaneously complaining about the patriarchy seems hypocritical to me.

I think that is the point JP was badly making.

I didn't watch it though so might be missing the tone and context.

MrsWinkly · 17/11/2018 13:57

I think most women wear make up so that they can blend in, not stand out.
Saying we're painting our faces to attract sexual attention is undiluted misogyny at it's finest.
He's clearly not met many menopausal women like me, who are simply trying not to scare the fucking horses.
I have visions of those massive, red, swollen, puffed-up butts that monkeys caper around with when they're signalling that they're ripe for a mate. Hardly doing that are we.
He's so far out there on this one. As said upthread, it's more fodder for his grim incel fanbase.

Janie143 · 17/11/2018 13:54

But women who don't wear makeup are trans according to today's ideology

Laceythesheep · 17/11/2018 13:52

I gave up conforming many years ago. Once I discovered I look better without make-up, I stopped wearing it and have spent the rest of my life being jealous of women who can.

OpalIridescence · 17/11/2018 13:45

Ha! Cross post rememberatime

OpalIridescence · 17/11/2018 13:43

fizzthecat

I think we may be making the same sort of point in a different way. My next paragraph talks about the power being an illusion.

I agree it is a uniform, that marks you as someone who conforms ( the very point of a uniform).

I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I have been thinking about this alot. I am uncomfortable that my daughter's see me applying make up before leaving the house whilst telling them they are perfect as they are, don't need approval etc.

I discussed this with my friend who I respect very much. She believes she wears make up for herself and it is a kind of art form.
I just think if you look at the motivations behind the act ( especially for women that do not go to the corner shop without make up) then it isn't really a pleasure it's another job you must complete. And the question is, why?

Wordthe · 17/11/2018 13:43

Decorating yourself embellishing your appearance these are things that happen in all human cultures, humans like to innovate express themselves etc

Original poster
fizzthecat1 · 17/11/2018 13:41

None of us are inviting harassment, of course (and Petersen is dead wrong on that point). But we are making ourselves more attractive for a reason

It's because society / beauty industry teaches girls from a v young age that they are ugly and therefore unacceptable without makeup on. Imagine if a TV personality went on TV without makeup and with bad skin, she'd probably be ripped to shreads. It's just the world we live in.

I've worked in a team of only women and didn't once turn up to work without makeup as I would be mortified if I had my bad skin on display. So it was not to appeal to men and Peterson saying this is very dangerous. It's the equivilant of "she was wearing a short skirt therefore asking for it" but with something as innocent as makeup.

OP posts:
Wordthe · 17/11/2018 13:41

Making yourself look attractive it's just making yourself look nice, wearing things that flatter you, dressing in a way that is appropriate to the situation according to current social norms etc
Men do it too

ISaySteadyOn · 17/11/2018 13:40

As weebisom said, does he not realise that some workplaces require women to wear makeup?

rememberatime · 17/11/2018 13:34

I don't agree with Petersen on everything (most things, actually) - but few of these responses really question WHY we wear make-up. I mean truly - what is our motivation?

None of us are inviting harassment, of course (and Petersen is dead wrong on that point). But we are making ourselves more attractive for a reason...

it might be confidence, it might be to attract a mate, it might be because we think we should. I don't think that very many of us wear make up simply because we want to. That doesn't answer the underlying question of what motivated us in the first place. It didn't happen in a vacuum.

Petersen has a bad habit of taking his point to a controversial end - when he makes a decent point to start with. We should all question "why".

Original poster
fizzthecat1 · 17/11/2018 13:34

I started wearing make up as a teenager because looking attractive was literally the only power i thought I could have
I could write alot about it but I feel that as a woman being attractive ( note artificially attractive) is a kind of power and control

I don't agree this is why most people wear makeup. For me I feel like as women we are socialised to believe that we are ugly without makeup by society / the beauty industry from a very young age and therefore need it to be acceptable.

I have bad skin and if I showed up to my professional job where I am meeting people without any makeup on then it would not be looked a favourably. I also have bad skin and use foundation to cover it up, how is that "sexual"?

I think it's just become like uniform for most women because of societal trends. You'd very rarely turn on the TV or even go outside and see many women without makeup on.

OP posts:
OpalIridescence · 17/11/2018 13:23

I do wear make up every day and the older I get the less comfortable I am with my motivations.

I was recently talking to a male relative who is heading down the transgender tunnel and has started wearing make up.

I asked him why he was wearing make up and the question was promptly turned on me.

I started wearing make up as a teenager because looking attractive was literally the only power i thought I could have.
I could write alot about it but I feel that as a woman being attractive ( note artificially attractive) is a kind of power and control.

Obviously it is a total fake power, a fools gold as the 'power' is being handed out to you is by other people's assessment of you. The power is not real, it is approval of your decision to conform and accept men's rating of you.

I could write much more of my thoughts on this but suffice it to say, I really don't think he has understood any of the conditioning that girls go through.

Wordthe · 17/11/2018 13:23

As with trump his message is aimed directly at his fanbase, the mgtow, mra, incell
without others he uses the smoke and mirror technique of refusing to engage on their terms
Another trump like tactic

Original poster
fizzthecat1 · 17/11/2018 13:09

JP is a brilliant man, and a lot of what he says is very interesting

No he isn't. A lot of people in his field see him as a complete joke. Anyone who is a doctor and works this hard at fame and relevancy have always turned me off. A lot of his theories are rooted in Evolutionary Psychology, which is the least respected genre of psychology and has been widely discredited. He's what you call a stupid persons smart person.

He was also called up as an expert Psychologist is a murder trial and the judge called his opinions dubious.

pressprogress.ca/jordan-peterson-was-an-expert-witness-in-a-murder-trial-the-court-called-his-expert-opinions-dubious/

Everyone should read this article. From the way Peterson was acting, it reads like satire. Here's some good excerpts:

In a decision handed down in July 2014, Justice Chris Mainella raised additional questions about Peterson’s claim that an online personality quiz he authored (called the “Unfakeable Big Five”) could help exonerate the defendant.

As the appeal judge explained, Peterson’s quiz “purports to scientifically measure the five recognized areas of a person’s personality” and was devised as a “tool for hiring employees” – based on his quiz results, Peterson concluded the defendant is “highly agreeable” and thus “susceptible to being manipulated during questioning.”

But:

The man later pleaded not guilty, claiming his confession was not true. He would go on to be convicted of manslaughter in two separate trials.

More gold from Peterson:

The appeal judge noted Peterson “claimed, without any proof, that his assessment tool cannot be deceived while other personality assessments can be.”

“All Dr. Peterson could say is he hired university students to try and fake the personality assessment and they couldn’t do it,” Justice Mainella pointed out, concluding “that is not scientific validation.”

Classic JP:

In the end, the court restricted Peterson’s proposed evidence “significantly,” even recommending he use “scripting” to prevent him from rambling to the jury on topics “not pertinent to the matter before the court.”

OP posts:
NonaGrey · 17/11/2018 13:08

Undertakes not understates obs

NonaGrey · 17/11/2018 13:07

JP is a brilliant man

But not a brilliant man who understates the very minimal research of actually taking to any women before pronouncing on our behaviour?

Wordthe · 17/11/2018 13:06

So he is brilliant and yet he can't grasp simple concepts....

Time40 · 17/11/2018 12:53

JP is a brilliant man, and a lot of what he says is very interesting. He hasn't got the first clue about make-up, though. He sees it as a very basic thing, and he has no understanding of the many different functions of make-up, and the different reasons why women wear it. It's one of the things he's just got plain wrong.

WeeBisom · 17/11/2018 12:52

Is he not aware that for many professions women are compelled to wear makeup and high heels in order to appear 'well groomed' and 'professional'? Is he also not aware that we live in a society that makes women feel ugly and like utter shit just for walking around in their bare skin?

Original poster
fizzthecat1 · 17/11/2018 12:46

This is the video of the exchange

OP posts:
MrSlant · 17/11/2018 12:33

Wow that man is a colossal bell end and the comments section is truly eyeopening.

Also I put makeup on even if I'm not going to leave the house because I like to. Who am I subconsciously trying to pull, myself?

RedToothBrush · 17/11/2018 12:33

I wear makeup once in a blue moon. Maybe two or three times a year.

Was it cos I was wearing trousers and a woolly polo jumper then?

Numpty.