Jordan Peterson thinks women who wear makeup and complain about sexual harrassment are hypocrites

But its an interesting point, and made me think. I dont buy into the idea that we have to wear make up to look professional

No, I don't buy into this either.

unlike some women in the office I dont feel the name to wear crazy big high heels or a barely there skirt to accentuate my bottom, I dont plaster my face in lipstick

However I don't buy into this either as being remotely a description of the professional women I've worked with in over 30 years.

Firstly no one should experience sexual harassment in the workplace, thats a given.

But its an interesting point, and made me think. I dont buy into the idea that we have to wear make up to look professional. At work I dont wear make up, I wear a suit, flat shoes (because they're more comfortable especially for commuting in), unlike some women in the office I dont feel the name to wear crazy big high heels or a barely there skirt to accentuate my bottom, I dont plaster my face in lipstick. In fact I think I look far more professional that the women who dress like this!

Im going to work, Im not dressing up to impress anyone. Im there to do a job. I look neat and professional. Im not going to start wearing make up or high heels and those that do that claim to having to do so to fit in, well its quite silly really.

Good for you fella. Keep up the hard work... I'm a little younger and maybe slightly indifferent about how my career has turned out, because I no longer love what I do. But I'm always up for learning new things, no matter who the 'teacher' might be.

I am 44, have career (professional leadership role) and children. Nothing this tool has ever said or ever will say will cause me to question my choices for even one millisecond.
We do what we like and will carry on, mr Peterson. Suck it up.

“I started wearing make up as a teenager because looking attractive was literally the only power i thought I could have.
I could write alot about it but I feel that as a woman being attractive ( note artificially attractive) is a kind of power and control.

Obviously it is a total fake power, a fools gold as the 'power' is being handed out to you is by other people's assessment of you. The power is not real, it is approval of your decision to conform and accept men's rating of you.

I could write much more of my thoughts on this but suffice it to say, I really don't think he has understood any of the conditioning that girls go through.”

Thank you for this. I work from home in order to avoid makeup....what’s going on here....?

“Nope. I used to wear make up at work and dress as described because women who do not do these things are deemed unprofessional. I rarely wear make up now and would be delighted if wearing no make up and sensible shoes were considered acceptable for professional women”

Same here

Placemarking. I like him tbh. He clarifies my thinking.

I like this

“on't loads of women wear makeup to look acceptable, because girls have it drummed into them that they should look attractive (even sexually attractive). And I complied with this when I was younger, because how attractive (==acceptable) I was was the primary lever of control I had over the world. And if I was going to get harrassed anyway (and I was) then being more attractive meant I could look like being harrassed didn't bother me. anyone still following?”

I've read through most of this thread now and I urge you to watch Joe Rogan interview Dr Jordan Peterson. They specifically address the Vice interview which was highly edited.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uU6pHBs5rNY

Steve, rape is definitely about power., and reframing it as the survivor's fault is about power, too. Having a son, stories like yours keep me up at night.
Please accept my sympathies.

That's awful Steve. And you are right, it's about power not attractiveness or "tempting".
My friends 70 something grandmother was raped in her own home. I don't know if it went to court but if it did I'm CERTAIN the judge didn't question what she was wearing, or how she was behaving.
Rape is still seen, in society, as a "loss if control"- a man being overcome by lust, but it's not that. I hope you know you did nothing to cause it.

Steve.

Steve thank you for posting. I just read Leona O'Callaghan's story too. 25 years she's carried that. I hope you no longer feel any blame or shame.

Oops, just from a male perspective. Being raped as a male makes you question your sexuality and emasculates you. I went through a period "feeling" gay.

An important point I forgot to say. It took until my DD was born for a few things to click in my head. Being raped is all about power. Control. My opinion is attractivity, clothing, makeup et al are excuses these monsters use in an attempt to control. I know just my perceiving he must have found me "attractive" causes me demons even today. It's bullshit, he chose me because I was an easy target. When I hear of drunk women being raped it reinforces this. Or am I way off-base.

Thank you Bernard, Rufus & AF

steve please accept my sympathies

steve

SimplySteve

I'm really sorry about what happened to you

men ive known over the years pretty much all believe that women wear makeup and nice clothes to appeal to men. they could never grasp that women wear what they like as it makes them feel good or gives them confidenxe or simply because they like what theyre wearing.

Growing up, from my teens or a little earlier (late 80s/early 90s) I was told from men (that I saw as powerful) like teachers, as an example, indeed females dressed to "attract" men, with many connotations attached. It wasn't some random occurrence either, incredibly frequent. Worst teacher for it was a (female) swimming teacher who reinforced the stance by commenting on girls' skirts and swimming costumes and telling them they'd never get a boyfriend "dressed like that".

Then I was raped at 14 and my life and these thoughts were obliterated. Why? Because I'd been (brainwashed?) taught these things. After my rape I cannot explain the shame I felt, and a pervading thought a man had deemed me "attractive" and thus I had "deserved" it.

Over 25 years on and the shame and feelings are just as powerful and I will carry them to the grave without expressing anything. My little secret.

Some scumbags, like the cockroach named in the thread title, have the opinion that if a woman orgasms it's because. Heh, can't write it. I had an erection while my monster did his thing.

Can we round up this neanderthal, others who share his view, all their supporters and dump them on Mars. I'm genuinely fearful of what happens in today's educational system, and how many men agree. Writing this I've literally curled into a ball and pulse raised with goosebumps. That'll be the PTSD, thanks monster. I've self harmed ever since. From my time growing up college and university were even worse.

As an aside, I read the Leona O'Callaghan thread literally right before I wrote this. If I hadn't, this post wouldn't exist. Amazing woman, I wish I had her strength.

he also says women have been sold a lie (career and children). He thinks he knows what women need to be fulfilled.

Men haven't been sold a lie though??! Because women do an extra 9 hours of childcare and housework a week. He has no comment about that.

enforced monogamy - omg. women are just a resource to serve incels.

and by 'women' they mean young, slim attractive women!

Women wear makeup mostly because of capitalism selling it to us don't we? Though I guess there has to be some kind of social norm alongside it for the sales to work. Agree that the red lips thing is nicked from the Naked Ape. Does he also think that women have prominent breasts because men like to look at them - another Desmond Morris gem? Even aged 12 and using The Naked Ape to masturbate (times were hard in those days) I thought 'huh? Surely men like prominent breasts because women have them to feed with, and if women had long feeding tubes men would like those instead?'

A friend's husband once mansplained makeup to me in this way referring to Adam Smith. I wish I'd thought at the time to say 'but Adam Smith wore a big fluffy wig?'

Nona