Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Women's Place event in Reading - 4th Dec

159 replies

ContessaHallelujahSparklehorse · 16/11/2018 08:55

It's local to me so I'm delighted!!

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-at-the-bar-tickets-52641760924?utm-medium=discovery&utm-campaign=social&utm-content=attendeeshare&aff=escb&utm-source=cp&utm-term=listing

OP posts:
Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:54

International human rights sprung from ashes of nazi Germany.

No country had laws about how the state treated it's own citizens - nothing in nazi Germany that they did to their own citizens was unlawful.

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:53

Rosa flings away microphone and stands up like boss

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:52

Rosa is going to talk about international human rights framework

JellySlice · 04/12/2018 19:52

Definitely need to watch and rewatch any video of Julian's speech. So much information!

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:49

Still not clear if GRC brings someone in to single sex services.

And what of women who have article 8 right to psychological integrity - fear of male violence may breach this right if single sex space not protected

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:46

Case called Green. Male prisoner Green Wanted wigs, prosthetic Vagina! Tights. Prisoner had no gender dysphoria, no GRC.

Judge was like WTF and was accused of prejudice by legal commentator.

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:44

Sex is protected - does that apply to people who have acquired a sex through gender reassignment.

Providers perplexed. Go online. Official EHRC advice totally unclear (as is Scottish guidance)

Case law:

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:42

Julian mooted gender ID could be covered by article 9 freedom of belief on twitter and everyone online gasped with horror.

Julian says belief is not woo- must be genuinely held, must be weighty, substantial part of human life, not conflict with human rights of others.

But if belief is protected, so is DISBELIEF (OOOH)

Freedom of expression - right not to use compelled speech.

Not beyond wit of legislature to maintain gender ID, plus agnosticism or non belief, and protection of women's services

(BTW I am paraphrasing all of this I am sure!)

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:39

Innate or immutable characteristics such as sex and race are legislated for.

But what of gender? A person's innate sense of something that is culturally determined?

If we agree- are women innately inferior to men? (We disagree in the room)

ShotsFired · 04/12/2018 19:38

Julian mentions the concept of innate gender to low but audible snorts...

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:37

No similar cases yet for sex v gender. Julian compares this to someone self id-ing as a nationality to get a passport.

Case of Goodwin assumed some transition -whereas self iD is an internal sense/self perception.

How do we legislate for self perception? Sex and self perception of gender are distinct.

And stonewall believe gender ID is innate

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 04/12/2018 19:35

Thanks for the updates. I'm toggling between MN and Twitter and feeling quite involved 😃

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:34

Balance of e.g. gay rights and religious belief.

Exception was a hers cake case, where the bakery had not refused service because the customers were gay, but would have rejected services to anybody for that service.

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:32

Christine Goodwin case took UK govt to ECHR - unable to marry male partner, unequal pension age, detriment through having male birth cert which she had to show.

Court found in her favour - no threat of "overturning the entire system" as no more than 5,000 transsexuals in UK and their proportionality assessment was restricted to fully transitioned transexuals.

But law is balancing act.

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:26

Julian is talking on sex and gender in law and human rights, how the GRA arose through Goodwin case, and what's a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:22

The mic is now working, mostly. Julian has a suffragette striped bow tie. We're nearly off!

Original poster
ContessaHallelujahSparklehorse · 04/12/2018 19:20

I found Anlaf!!

It is lovely here Grin admittedly the venue has had a few issues but everyone is very friendly!

OP posts:
ShotsFired · 04/12/2018 19:19

I am sat with the lovely JellySlice at a packed venue! Talk about to start!

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:18

I HAVE SOMEHOW SAT NEXT TO CONTESSA

(It's also possible everyone here is a mumsnetter)

Hefzi · 04/12/2018 19:17

Grin Prawn

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:16

Also Grin at Hefzi's mum.

We are about to start! The mic is broken so there will be much GOOD PROJECTING (Rosa's excellent at this, as is the excellent security guard fellow)

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 04/12/2018 19:13

I'm not going to tonight's meeting but feel I should protest that anyone who's seen me at a feminist meeting know that super-annuated hippy looking a bit vague fits me too a tee. I resemble that remark, Hefzi. Grin

Anlaf · 04/12/2018 19:07

Despite valiant attempts the protesters have failed to buy a ticket or find the location by other means (please be careful of anyone asking for the venue).

We're in and we have wine!

liquidrevolution · 04/12/2018 18:02

I've parked at riverside as it's the car park I know best. All within walking distance! Now to grab some food before it starts. Grin

Original poster
ContessaHallelujahSparklehorse · 04/12/2018 17:50

On my way over!

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread