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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Well that's me put back in my box then

35 replies

Babysharkdoodoodoodo · 14/11/2018 16:25

Has some LGBT training today and we were shown a slide with definitions on. And blimey: Fully front and centre is Cis woman in a box and then a box for trans.

Needlessly say I made a small objection as I'm not a Cis Woman. I'm a woman woman. You know born and bred female. But no..... apparently that's a matter of opinion and as I'm in a non political organisation I'm not allowed to contest this.

I did ahem, throw a teeny weeny tantrum but not in a loud way. Just in a I am real woman hear me roar way.

So then we had a lecture on the hardships of trans people and how being a woman is so easy. Gahhh!

And then given a pretty rainbow lanyard and a pat on the head

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rememberatime · 15/11/2018 09:43

I'm lucky enough to be self employed and work from home - I won't be giving myself inclusivity training.

However, it is known that the majority of people are at least sceptical about this stuff - but most never speak out. It is probably the case the the person organising this training is only ticking a box and doesn't believe it either.

So I think that a fuss needs to be made, by everyone who doesn't agree. There is power in numbers and employees need to be braver.

I realise that it is very easy for me to say (from my workplace/sofa) but this type of training is bollocks, but it since more than that... it is truly damaging and needs to be challenged as often as possible.

directsunlight · 15/11/2018 09:20

My advice is to ask tricky questions under the guise of being confused.

"Why are you mentioning clownfish, do they have a gender identity? How does this apply to this topic, I'm confused?"

"I read something about rapid onset gender dysphoria and clusters of children coming out as trans in schools - isn't the government looking into that?"

"I have a friend who is intersex, and she tells me that intersex people are either male with a chromosome issue or female with a chromosome issue - there isn't a third sex."

or, if applicable:

"I have x number of children and there were only two of us in the room, how does a third sex play into this?"

"What does the Equality Act say about protected characteristics? Is there a hierarchy? And aren't there exemptions that can be applied? I'm confused, can you explain?"

"Don't we agree that gender stereotypes are bad? But doesn't the idea of 'cis' enforce those stereotypes?"

"I read a shocking statistic in the papers a few weeks back about unisex / mixed sex facilities had a sharp increase in sex-based crimes. Did you see that?"

etc etc etc.

These are quite pointed questions, but in my experience they really can't be answered with a pithy remark and spark a bit of discussion. Plant the seeds of critical thinking!

nocoolnamesleft · 15/11/2018 03:21

Remember, when you are being called a ciswoman, the phrase you are looking for is "please do not misgender me!"

AnchorMum · 14/11/2018 20:06

What a nightmare for you babyshark especially when you're new - but well done for speaking out!

Why not non-binary female - it's as logical as non-binary trans.

The rainbow's been ruined for me too.

Babysharkdoodoodoodo · 14/11/2018 19:35

Thanks all. I did have to grit my teeth and pull up my big girl pants to speak up as this was one of my induction talks and I don't want to make waves in a new career. But I thought ' I already tick some of the inclusion boxes: mixed race and disabled, so why not!'

I do like the idea of identifying as female non binary.

I really, really hate this, especially as this is one of the largest organisations around. I've already had to redact my social media due to security checks. Gah!

OP posts:
Lottapianos · 14/11/2018 19:35

'Lots of rainbow lanyards popping up where I work too. So far I've managed to avoid it. How sad that the rainbow symbol now has that effect on me. It didn't use to.'

I feel exactly the same. It's a shame

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 14/11/2018 19:19

OldCrone if this comes my way I can tell them I am an agender female and ask for their support and inclusion.

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 14/11/2018 19:16

Well done for speaking up, OP!

Lots of rainbow lanyards popping up where I work too. So far I've managed to avoid it. How sad that the rainbow symbol now has that effect on me. It didn't use to.

FekkoThePenguin · 14/11/2018 19:13

My head is hurting a little.

OldCrone · 14/11/2018 19:12

I do think the only way we can get over this is to all be 'special' and 'non-binary'.

What about an identity of 'female non-binary'? We know we are female but we don't identify with gender stereotypes. So no pronoun changes, but we get to be 'special' and under the trans umbrella, where we can be treated with respect instead of being sent off to the gulag or burnt as witches.

And if anyone says we can't be female and non-binary they are denying our existence and committing literal violence.

FekkoThePenguin · 14/11/2018 19:11

I'd probably resort to 'are you fucking kidding?'

I can be awfully eloquent...

NaturalBlondeYeahRight · 14/11/2018 19:10

I’m dreading this type of training. I have all these great speeches and arguements in my mind but then when I’m in the situation, it all disappears.

Lottapianos · 14/11/2018 18:59

'Possibly you speaking up has given other women an encouragement to think ‘hey whats going on here?’.'

I think that's true. I guarantee you were not the only person sitting in that room thinking 'WTF???' . Well done for speaking up

It's the lectures about how very very hard trans folks have it, and what a piece of piss women's lives are, that stick in my fucking craw most of all

Pluckedpencil · 14/11/2018 18:58

I do think the only way we can get over this is to all be 'special' and 'non-binary'. I would apply tomorrow and thank then for their enlightening training.

FekkoThePenguin · 14/11/2018 18:13

Think of a million was to be 'special' and let rip. One a day, even 2 with ever increasing demands. That should keep them busy.

IStandWithPosie · 14/11/2018 18:10

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Be a squeaky wheel. Grin

FekkoThePenguin · 14/11/2018 18:06

And whatever they say - tell they are wrong and victimising you and it's literal violence. Then give yourself the rest of the day off as a 'break' and make threatening comments about lawyers and cake walks.

Poppyred85 · 14/11/2018 17:51

Yep, tell them you are agender (as you don’t have a gender identity) or non binary. Currently you still prefer the pronouns she/her (as is your right) but that you are not cis. Then see what they say. If there’s any kind of attempt to knock you back tell them they are invalidating your identity, trans people exist and they are committing literal violence against you. Then demand how they are going to accommodate your trans identity.

FekkoThePenguin · 14/11/2018 17:38

Doing a bunce only works of you have a penis.

MrsFogi · 14/11/2018 17:37

You totally need to take this up with HR and if after your discussions they don't see an iota of sense you will need to show them the logical conclusion of this.... cis is so deeply offensive that you will need to self-identify as something else - do a Pip Bunce so that they really have their work cut out walking on eggshells to not offend you.

MrsWinkly · 14/11/2018 17:32

Yep, the rainbow has a predominantly different association for me now.

FekkoThePenguin · 14/11/2018 17:17

Every time I see a company logo that has been 'rainbowed' I add them to my mental list.

SkullPointerException · 14/11/2018 16:59

Oh, OP, I feel for you. But, well done. You spoke up, and that's what matters! Have a Wine

FWIW, I'm so dreading this moment. I know it's coming. In fact, I'm fully expecting it to make an appearance at this year's annual executive diversity training (where, somewhat ironically perhaps, I tend to be the only woman - maybe I should just ask that they label the boxes "Skull" and "people more like everyone else in the room"). Grin

MrsWinkly · 14/11/2018 16:56

Oh fnarp.
This bollocks is coming for us all, isn't it?
I wonder how many organisations up and down the country are having the rainbow lanyards made as we speak...

FekkoThePenguin · 14/11/2018 16:52

I would balk at the bloody rainbow. A few years ago it would have been fine - when it was good old LGB. Before it became GBT++++++

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