Facilitating Wives Club - trying to break free!

Dropping in a link to the full Cassandra essay by Florence Nightingale as it's a barnstormer to read and still disturbingly relevant [NB: interesting, I've just had to self-edit obligatory commentary about some of her attitudes and privilege]:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2920981/

Interesting commentary about it:

www.theguardian.com/books/2005/jan/29/featuresreviews.guardianreview35

You are not at all responsible for the position of other women in the workplace. You need to shed that consideration from your list. You seem to have taken a lot of responsibility on your plate - even if not that of being the breadwinner. The responsibility of creating a healthy and sustainable environment for women and work is not one you need to take on, so ditch that.

But I will put another responsibility onto you. The responsibility on you to be the most significant person in your own life. I think you may be finding it hard to be that person to yourself.

And what arranfan says is spot on. I am 50 and at my age women are really struggling because of earlier decisions to be at home because it made "economic sense". Throw in a couple of decades of life events - illness, death, divorce - and their decisions suddenly look incredibly damaging. I have stayed at work throughout (single parent so no choice anyway) and though it has almost killed me, it pays dividends at this stage in my life. Economically but also in terms of my sense of self and my independence. Also these damn kids, for whom we give up so much, are going to bugger off if we are doing this right. And then what is left for us?

What are your particular interests?

I currently volunteer with scouts, as I like the kids and I like helping them get outdoors. I'm also a trustee for my local women's institute.

In the past I've volunteered at a national trust house, and volunteered in schools. I've also done tech and props and backstage stuff for amateur dramatics. Variable in whether it's volunteering or a hobby but all very interesting things.

Other options I've looked at (but which aren't currently viable for me) are: citizens advice bureau, picking up leftover fresh foods from supermarkets, sorting it and dropping it off at different soup kitchens, joining a project which teaches adult women to read.

The breadth of volunteering opportunities is enormous and might make you feel less claustrophobic.

I was very impressed with some of the volunteering opportunities posted on a recent thread and wished I had the free weekdays that would make the time commitment feasible.

www.imb.org.uk/join-now/current-vacancies/

I've met a lot of women recently who spent so long being facilitating and supportive wives that their identities and careers disappeared. Too many of them are now in the position where they've been through a disadvantageous divorce, are trying to find a job to make back their pension credits, and are in the age-group that is most affected by the change in pension age.

I remember you from the threads :) they were two of the best I’ve seen on MN (on there under an old name.)

What was your previous career?

I’d say get a job. Any job. Not because Sahm isn’t legitimate but because you want to do something else and you don’t need to be at home now.

The economics of it for now are less important than rebuilding an identity out of the home. This may not be a career now but may turn into one. I don’t know how old you are but most likely you have decades left in which to make a job into something worthwhile.

The original poster mentioned childcare, implying the children were too young to go to school. I was responding to that particular situation, not to 'how to occupy my time meaningfully while my kids are at school'. I'm concerned that children needs to be cared for by their own mothers and women rights to be supported to care for their own children are being devalued by a society that only seems to value women if they get back to 'meaningful' employment asap after childbirth.

Exactly barelove I think we’re talking about how to keep busy/stimulated when the kids are at school.

'If you have the luxury of not having to earn a living, fucking well parent your kids!'

Ha ha. My kids are at school at the moment.
Should I be polishing their bedrooms or keeping up to date with the latest parenting research?
My kids are being pretty damn well parented thank you very much. I love them and I love bringing them up as well as I possibly can but it doesn't take up so much of my time and mental energy that I can't do anything else. Perhaps I should have had six.

I have just signed up for some volunteering, connected to my old career.
Had the first day of training on on Tuesday, which involved being trained on a job I not only used to do, but used to train other people in.

And you know what? I really enjoyed it. I have chosen a really high-quality organisation (that's the great thing about volunteering - you can have more choice about what you do and who you do it for than you do in paid work) and I felt I learned a lot from the way the training was delivered even if the content was bread and butter to me.
I also found that one session of the training connected to my parenting experience (autism awareness, and my ds has been assessed for autism) and made me realise I had expertise I didn't know I had, because all that work understanding his condition and how to deal with it is applicable in many workplace roles too. I thought it was going to be awkward and a little bit sad sitting through basic training in my field of expertise but it turned out to be a very positive experience.

I don't know where this is going to go because I have other irons in the fire and ds's condition still creating barriers to my working, but it has made me aware of the way you can use volunteering strategically to refresh your employability. It's a way to access training, for free, and get a new perspective on the workplace, and if it never leads onto any paid work it's still worthwhile because you can donate your skills to a cause you care about.

You do have to find something meaningful to do, for your own sanity.

When the fuck did raising our children become not meaningful enough? Why are so many women undervaluing the most meaningful thing they can ever do? All the wank idiots that we complain about so much were raised by someone. Lets focus on getting the next generation right and put everything we've got into raising emotionally mature, conscious, compassionate, intelligent adults instead of trusting their future to the influence of random childcare facilities. If you have the luxury of not having to earn a living, fucking well parent your kids!

I work full time, DH is self employed but only so he can be flexible around childcare etc (two primary aged kids). He’s more or less full time though, but crucially no commute. His pre-DC job was in a male dominated industry that doesn’t recognise flexible working!

We’re relatively unusual in that we prioritised my career.

It is stressful, and I envy friends where one of them (ok, it is always the woman) works 3 days a week. I don’t think more happiness comes from having two full time parents in demanding jobs if you can afford not to (I appreciate for many it is not a choice - we can’t afford for DH to not work at all).

But I would go bonkers if I was a SAHM, so totally get where you’re coming from! I would definitely look into volunteering as a way to build skills/experience for when the kids are older and need less looking after.

Now just reading through everyones posts. I got so caught up in the 'ive had a baby, noone will want to employ me'. Please please please, keep positive. I have the dreaded 2:2 and from a bog standard uni, and im employable.

meralia ive been out of full time work for 10yrs. Have been doing a mix of part time paid and voluntary work for 5 yrs. Its been a slow slow road. And often no support from my husband

Touch wood ive found it kind of easy to get back into the workforce. Hopefully ill be starting a civil service programme in january. However, i had to manage/ facilitate the household to get to the position im in. So all the voluntary work & studying ive done had to fit around everyone else. It made me cry sometimes with anger and sadness how i was the lowest priority at home. Im hoping that this now changes but im expecting a wobbly year in terms of the mental load

I’m in a similar situation. I feel I’ve been out of the workplace to long now (was previously in healthcare). Most of the people I used to work for / with have left where I used to work. (Healthcare has a huge staff turnover) so I would struggle to get a reference for any jobs in the future. It’s quite depressing.

I just want independence, be able to earn my own money, build my confidence and grow professionally. I can put my youngest in to nursery if I found employment, but, as I say, I’ve got a 4 year gap where I wasn’t working, and I’m worried potential employers will look at that negatively.

My husband works lots of different hours and works away (uk and abroad) sometimes, so I would find it difficult to keep up with his schedule in regards to any job I had or the childcare issues.

I’m actually attending a women only event next month that’s about reskilling, upskilling and linking to partner companies that may provide opportunities. I really want to get into some form of administrative role.

I hope you find a solution. It is really hard.

I did what Tuf did - volunteered in my kids' school and took it into two jobs in education (one's part-time, the other seasonal). It's terrible money, but I discovered a real passion for literacy and I love the work. Plus it rarely gives me childcare issues except for when I don't find out about staff meetings til it's too late grr and I have a couple of days a week to myself too. I know it's mummy track but I'm kind of ok with that for now. When they're both at senior school I may change my mind and be infuriated, who knows. Depends how much more money bleeds out of education, I guess.

Have you thought about doing some studying?

It doesn't have to be anything career related.

Why not do a short course in something that really interests you. Just to give you something that's stimulating and only for you, rather than for dh or kids.

Oxford Uni do a number of online short courses in lots of fascinating subjects.