Pregnant Dad-to-be

humans can’t change sex.

Glad you agree. No one actually believes they can.* So how can a mother become a father?

• which kind of makes me wonder why we are being asked to change our laws for something nobody actually believes, but that’s a different thread...

Will the world end if Scout is correctly recorded as mother on the birth certificate? Will the world end if she correctly tells her child she’s the mother, instead of the father?

Humans can't change sex.

Humans can feel they were born into the wrong sex, they are therefore transgender.

Some transgender people want kids.

As a result some kids may refer to the parent who gave birth to them as 'Dad' or 'Papa'.

The world is not going to end.

So what should lesbians do where the egg of one partner is implanted in the womb of the other? Who gets the title of 'mother' and who gets the pet name?

The egg donor is the bio mother. However it doesn't matter - nor is it any of my business - what lesbian parents ask their child to call them (mum, mama, mother etc), because both parents are female.

Fathers are male. Society, law, science, medicine and the media mean a male person when they refer to fathers or dads. Directing children to accept that this is not true places a huge burden upon them IMO.

Anything that obscures the material existence of sex, or implies to children that it is possible to change sex, makes me deeply uneasy. Sex matters.

Children's needs should be centred.

t would be extremely rare for a child born to LGBT parents to be unplanned or unwanted

Are we including straight couples who are “trans” because the man dresses as a woman and the woman dresses as a man...?

I find it interesting you link LGB parents with trans.

As they are nothing to do with each other, why are you using LGB parents in this argument?

But do you believe humans can change sex? Yes or no?

Two different concepts:

1. How reproduction works

2. That it is helpful or relevant to classify people according to male or female gender.

It is possible to believe the second and understand the first.

I do not believe in God. I don't think people who tell their children that God exists are telling their children bullshit or lies and I don't think people who honestly believe they have a gender that is different to their sex are 'lying'.

In order to lie you have to believe that what you are saying isn't true.

differentnameforthis it would be extremely rare for a child born to LGBT parents to be unplanned or unwanted.

Children born to straight couples are frequently unplanned or unwanted. Is it wilfully obtuse of the parents to refer to them as 'happy surprises'?

Another advantage children of LGB and T parents have is - Like Scout's child - they are almost always planned and very much wanted. This is what you wrote, it implies that children of heterosexual couples are not planned, nor wanted. Or do you not read what you type?

Yes, I guess more heterosexual couples have unplanned babies, because ... biology! But that doesn't mean they are any less wanted than those conceived by same sex couples, which is what you appear to be implying.

Jeze, it's you who is saying biology doesn't matter.

differentnameforthis seriously? Straight couples never have unplanned pregnancies?

Perhaps you should check some of the other boards on here, it's actually very common.

they are almost always planned and very much wanted. Implying that children born to heterosexual couples are not?

Kid: but you are my Papa, how did you make a female egg?

Scout: remember I told you I was born with the body of a Mummy even though I am a daddy? That's how I made the female egg

Can anyone tell me who this lie benefits? Not the child. Such bullshit: born with the body of a mummy 🤪

differentnameforthis yes. Obviously. Nobody is suggesting otherwise.

You can use any name/nickname you like to identify yourself as a parent.

Mum, mumma, dad, dada, papa, sir, madam, first name, surname, mermaid, dinosaur.

No one cares how members of the family identify themselves, but telling a child they grew in and came from inside a male body is bullshit and lies. Scout's child is coming from a female body. If that female wants to be called Papa, so be it. Doesn't mean Scout's child came from a males body.

Hey spannablue thanks for popping in and sharing that info.

Another advantage children of LGB and T parents have is - Like Scout's child - they are almost always planned and very much wanted.

When you think of all the awful, abusive fathers there are in the world it really isn't so terrible that this one father in this article was born with female anatomy and birthed the child them self. In fact it shows a willingness to put the child's needs before their gender identity for the duration of the pregnancy.

I’m not entirely sure where god fits in - are you saying transgenderism is a belief? I’d agree with you on that - it’s a faith based system.

Absolutely. It's clear from the article that Scout believes in gender, and that therefore when they are talking about being a father they are referring to gender not sex. I don't agree with Scout, but I have no more interest in challenging Scout's beliefs on gender than I would have an interest in challenging Scout's beliefs on homeopathy or reincarnation as long as they don't affect me.

I agree that laws on gender very much affect me, but when you start questioning who should be on a birth certificate and how they should be described you open a very large can of worms. Unless you are going to insist that all fathers must go on birth certificates following a DNA test (how?) you have to accept that birth certificates often don't represent biological 'truth'.

The original point is telling a prospective child they have no mother and pretending the mother is the father.

I'm still not clear why anyone thinks Scout intends to do this, how you would be able to convince a child that they have no mother once they learn about sexual reproduction; assuming similar laws in NZ on sperm donors, how it would be possible to prevent a child from finding out about their genetic heritage, or how Scout would account for the fact that there is one birth certificate with Scout on it so Scout is clearly the child's mother.

Again, in a situation where a woman carries a child for two men using sperm from one of the men and a donor egg, the woman, and possibly her wife will be registered as the initial parents.

The two men can then get a parental order and a new birth certificate.

None of the birth certificates show the egg donor and none of them represent a combination of parents that is biologically possible.

Which birth certificate explains the child's parentage most accurately?

Of course a child should be able to have access to information on their genetic history, but they have never been able to do that simply by looking at a birth certificate. At most it can identify the person who gave birth to them, who must be female, regardless of their identity.

Jezebelz, I've mainly popped in to say, solidarity. Thank you for your calm responses. And take care of yourself.

I also want to say, a lot of the responses here are about the wellbeing of the child.

The research evidence suggests that the children of LGBT people tend to grow up with a politically conscious mind and an ability to think critically. In terms of things like mental ill health and school attainment, being the child of LGBT people doesn't appear to have a negative impact.

On a personal level too, I know several children born to LGB and T people, including those born to transgender men. They are lovely kids, and have the same sorts of concerns and enjoyments as any other child I know. Their greatest issue is the homophobia, biphobia and transphobia of others. Where their schools take clear steps to address this, they tend to be happier.

So what should lesbians do where the egg of one partner is implanted in the womb of the other?

Who gets the title of 'mother' and who gets the pet name?

But I believe humans should have the right to present as the gender that matches the sex they identify with.

Jezebelz, this is sexist. Gender roles are sexist stereotypes.

Also, people already have the right to present as whatever they wish. Nobody cares. In fact a 'masculine' mother is likely to inspire children wherever she goes and challenge sexism just by being herself.

A mother that hates the term 'mother' is free make their child call them something else. 'Dad' is deliberately misleading, IMO. It obscures an important reality for the child. But the child could e.g. call their mother by a pet name or their first name. Again, no lies there. Plenty of children do this. The focus should be on the child.

Bowlofbabelfish nope. But I believe humans should have the right to present as the gender that matches the sex they identify with. And to have that legally recognised.

Absolutely unbelievable. Jez actually thinks the inner identity of a trans parent is more important than poorer outcomes for children.

You’ve shifted to what they call the parent - that is not the original point of the argument.

The original point is telling a prospective child they have no mother and pretending the mother is the father. Not what names a family unit call each other.

Again: can humans change sex? Yes or no?

Do you believe humans can change sex jezebelz? Genuine question.