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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The effects of hormones on gendered behaviour....again!

65 replies

ScottCheggJnr · 12/11/2018 20:07

I've decided to create this thread so as not to derail the other thread about the difference in learning between boys and girls. The below study is one I'd bookmarked a while ago to read at a later date and then forgotten about until said thread reminded me about it.

I'm personally very interested in the effect of hormones, not least because I've noticed a significant change in my character since taking testosterone for a medical problem and noting significant changes in going from a very low to a high level.

I'm about to read the article in full, but below are some pretty controversial statements that stand out, which are particularly relevant to some of the heated discussions I've read on here previously.

I'd be very interested to hear the interpretations of those posters who are more scientifically minded than myself.

Confidence has increased that early androgens affect gender development, in light of recent studies that confirm, extend, and clarify previous findings. Activity interests and participation – from childhood toy preferences to adult hobbies and occupations – continue to be strongly linked to prenatal androgen exposure.

Androgen effects on interest and engagement in male-typed occupations was seen to have economic consequences: women with exposure to high levels of prenatal androgens due to congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) were more likely than controls to have income in the top 20th percentile, reflecting employment in male-typical, higher-paying jobs (despite having lower education, and more psychosocial problems).

Prenatal androgen effects on the tendency to prefer careers that involve things versus people reinforce other suggestions that women might be engaged by STEM when emphasis is placed on its social relevance.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4681519/

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BlardyBlar · 12/11/2018 21:12

Male’ and ‘female’ objects tend to be defined tautologically. Boys toys are boys toys because boys play with them. Girls toys are girls toys because girls play with them.

Girls have ‘girl’ toys shoved at them and boys have ‘boy’ toys shoved at them, pretty much from birth. We really have no idea which each sex would pick, given a completely free choice.

redsummershoes · 12/11/2018 21:12

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ScottCheggJnr · 12/11/2018 21:10

I think it's also not necessarily mutually exclusive that hormones might affect toy/activity choices but that forcing certain choices might also have individual effects.

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ScottCheggJnr · 12/11/2018 21:07

As in understand it, androgen levels within the normal range are a poor predictor of behaviour.

This may not necesarily be the case according to some of the more recent studies.

We were able to show for the first time that increasing levels of testosterone within the normal physiological range can have a profound effect on brain circuits that are involved in threat-processing and human aggression.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/280915.php

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AspieAndProud · 12/11/2018 21:00

Development seems to be a chaotic system like the weather. It’s something easier to explain in retrospect than to predict.

Brains are incredibly complex. That’s why SSRIs are effective for some people with depression, ineffective for others, and can make the condition far worse in others. You can spend years trying different regimes before you find something that can alleviate the symptoms and by then the condition might have cured itself.

ScottCheggJnr · 12/11/2018 20:56

If you’ve started hormone treatment as an adult I’m not sure why you are quoting research into developmental differences.

Because I'm interested in hormonal effects on behaviour in the wider context and because with my treatment as an adult I'm now in a similar position to somebody who naturally has a higher level.

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AspieAndProud · 12/11/2018 20:55

Ships have gender :-)

‘Male’ and ‘female’ objects tend to be defined tautologically. Boys toys are boys toys because boys play with them. Girls toys are girls toys because girls play with them.

Prenatal testosterone is one of the possible explanations for autism. I wonder how long before we are dragged under the ‘intersex’ umbrella?

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/11/2018 20:50

Hormones in children come into effect at puberty.

Doesn't this research prove we are all different due to many different tiny influences?

There's evidence to show that a lot of paracetamol taken during pregnancy can affect the baby's fertility if male.

Brains and bodies are so diverse for so many reasons.

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/11/2018 20:46

Yes I was going to add that inanimate objects don't have a gender.

AspieAndProud · 12/11/2018 20:45

If you’ve started hormone treatment as an adult I’m not sure why you are quoting research into developmental differences.

As in understand it, androgen levels within the normal range are a poor predictor of behaviour. Changes in hormone levels of the type you find in cheating sportsmen and women is a different matter.

It also depends on social context. Testosterone leads to behaviour which is socially esteemed, so in a competitive environment it leads to selfish, competitive behaviour.l, and in a collaborative environment it leads to pro-social and even self-sacrificing behaviour.

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/11/2018 20:44

But, take away the idea of gender (ie it's a social construct) and what does the research prove?

UpstartCrow · 12/11/2018 20:44

What gender does a paintbrush have? Which sex is it intended for?
A paintbrush does not have a gender, neither does a toy car or gun.

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/11/2018 20:43

Research has proved that simply 'gendering' toys reduces the likelihood of girls going into stem. Ie, they don't access them from an early age as marketing if toys is sex based.

ScottCheggJnr · 12/11/2018 20:41

Given the overwhelming amount of studies linked, it's going to take me a while to digest it all too. But it's some pretty interesting stuff.

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NeurotrashWarrior · 12/11/2018 20:37

Affect 'gender' development - this needs clarifying for me but I have to sleep now