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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The effects of hormones on gendered behaviour....again!

65 replies

ScottCheggJnr · 12/11/2018 20:07

I've decided to create this thread so as not to derail the other thread about the difference in learning between boys and girls. The below study is one I'd bookmarked a while ago to read at a later date and then forgotten about until said thread reminded me about it.

I'm personally very interested in the effect of hormones, not least because I've noticed a significant change in my character since taking testosterone for a medical problem and noting significant changes in going from a very low to a high level.

I'm about to read the article in full, but below are some pretty controversial statements that stand out, which are particularly relevant to some of the heated discussions I've read on here previously.

I'd be very interested to hear the interpretations of those posters who are more scientifically minded than myself.

Confidence has increased that early androgens affect gender development, in light of recent studies that confirm, extend, and clarify previous findings. Activity interests and participation – from childhood toy preferences to adult hobbies and occupations – continue to be strongly linked to prenatal androgen exposure.

Androgen effects on interest and engagement in male-typed occupations was seen to have economic consequences: women with exposure to high levels of prenatal androgens due to congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) were more likely than controls to have income in the top 20th percentile, reflecting employment in male-typical, higher-paying jobs (despite having lower education, and more psychosocial problems).

Prenatal androgen effects on the tendency to prefer careers that involve things versus people reinforce other suggestions that women might be engaged by STEM when emphasis is placed on its social relevance.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4681519/

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ScottCheggJnr · 14/11/2018 20:01

Oh man, want to read this. Do I get a certain amount of free tokens if I register? Happy to do so and post here if allowed.

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NeurotrashWarrior · 14/11/2018 17:37

(I think the same author is linked on the other thread too. Sorry, not sure if same article or not)

NeurotrashWarrior · 14/11/2018 17:34

(Unfortunately I cant read all of it as I've maxed out my free amount this month.)

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ScottCheggJnr · 14/11/2018 15:49

Ah, I can see you are talking about consensual role play.
I still fail to see how women are primary consumers of violent porn within the context of consensual role play.

Sorry, I was a bit vague but didn't want to derail.

Pornhub (world's largest porn site) recently allowed an analyst to look at their user data which is, I believe, the first time that such a large scale review has been undertaken. They found that it was predominently female users who were viewing violent porn.

Their method of obtaining this data was the use of Google analytics which is generally regarded to be fairly accurate over a large sample size but still not 100% accurate.

The analytics would look at such things as the name you use to sign up to Google services and similar (Gmail, Google+ YouTube, etc), your channel subscriptions, your browsing habits etc, and it benchmarks them against trends. Websites using it have access to the collated demographic analysis.

As I said it's not 100% but its fairly accurate. People tend to use their real names when signing up to Gmail etc (not necessarily in the username but in the subscription data) not least because it's often linked to another email address in case you need to reset a forgotten password - it would likely raise more alarm bells if you tried to access an email account from another one with a different name and gender selected as it wouldn't look like the original user was trying to access it.

Outside of the minute number of people who are trans, it's fair to assume that a person who creates an email account using the name 'Sarah' and who subscribes to a lot of female focused channels and browses a lot of female orientated sites is likely a female. Of course there are many crossover interests between the sexes, but there probably aren't many blokes called Sarah who subscribe to channels about women's fashion and purchase women's clothing.

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Wrathofjurgenklop · 13/11/2018 12:50

Ah, I can see you are talking about consensual role play.
I still fail to see how women are primary consumers of violent porn within the context of consensual role play.

Wrathofjurgenklop · 13/11/2018 12:30

You won't get far with your argument if you are saying that women are the primary consumers of violent porn.

Wrathofjurgenklop · 13/11/2018 12:27

Although I'd concur that violence has no place in porn or prostitution (outside of consensual role play, which some women undoubtedly enjoy being the primary consumers of violent pornography according to the most recent study on Pornhub's user demographic)

That is a rather conflicting statement.

Is it, some women who are the primary consumers of violent porn,
or are women the primary consumers of violent porn then?

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/11/2018 11:52

It focuses on how stereotypes mould this stuff with a comment on how male violence can be tracked to lack of emotional literacy.

Interestingly male hormones can be affected / lessened by taking on caring roles.

Wirelessmouse · 13/11/2018 11:51

Vegilante - awesome critique.

ScottCheggJnr · 13/11/2018 11:43

Thanks Neuro, I'll give it a watch.

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NeurotrashWarrior · 13/11/2018 11:33

I do however believe that hormones are a large part of male violence (not an excuse mind) which many would contest.

Watch the bbc doc - there's a part in he first one that explains it more.

ScottCheggJnr · 13/11/2018 11:31

Although I'd concur that violence has no place in porn or prostitution (outside of consensual role play, which some women undoubtedly enjoy being the primary consumers of violent pornography according to the most recent study on Pornhub's user demographic).

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ScottCheggJnr · 13/11/2018 11:23

I thought there was recent evidence which suggested that simulated violence (may have been video games) actually lowered violent behaviour, maybe as some kind of outlet. Although the debate is far from settled.

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UpstartCrow · 13/11/2018 10:52

Thats a good argument for banning violence in entertainment, porn and prostitution right there.

ScottCheggJnr · 13/11/2018 10:50

What we reject is the idea that by taking opposite-sex hormones, a male can become a female, & a female can become a male.

The actual scientific research referenced in the paper you linked to in your initial post supports a/the GC & feminist position, not yours.

Are you posting in the right thread? I've never argued that people can change sex and I'm opposed to self ID as I've stated many times before on here. Confused

I do however believe that hormones are a large part of male violence (not an excuse mind) which many would contest.

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Justhadathought · 13/11/2018 10:48

I reckon there must be a lot of US dollars going into researching and finding a biological basis for gender identity; courtesy of Jennifer Pritzker et al. Seek & ye shall find!

UpstartCrow · 13/11/2018 10:44

There is a new MRA drive to claim that men's behaviour is controlled by their hormones. For example, I've seen posters claim that men dont pay child maintenance because they lack oxytocin.

I think this is supposed to be a 'gotcha' for the fact that the legal system recognises that in some instances, women's behaviour can be explained by their hormones. For example women who have post partum psychosis are not in full control of their behaviour.

I think you have to be particularly resentful of women to be jealous of someone who has PPP.

cockBlocker · 13/11/2018 10:35

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Wrathofjurgenklop · 13/11/2018 10:04

Vegi
Being stuck at home must be sharpening your brain.
Seems like someone has to do the MN night shift. Grin
I'll be checking out the GC photographers in the media now.
I've noticed, in the news lately, there seems to be photos of criminals now, clearly showing the perpetrators sex.

Vegilante · 13/11/2018 09:19

Lurker, Sign & Angry - Thanks so much for the kind words. Glad to be of service. Been stuck home due to illness recently, so I'm happy to have feminist talk to keep my brain active. So many interesting minds & topics.

Wrath - OMG, the photos on that book cover! But it's weird - they look just like shots taken by the GC photographer (name escapes me) whose work is meant to expose how nutty & extreme all this pink & blue genderism is! The authors & publisher probably don't understand words like "satire" and "irony."

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/11/2018 09:15

Shots it's on YouTube I think will try to find

Wrathofjurgenklop · 13/11/2018 09:01

Thanks Vegi

Here is a bookcover image from one of the authors.

        It's all about the stereotypes innit?
The effects of hormones on gendered behaviour....again!
Vegilante · 13/11/2018 08:58

Oh, come on! Part 6

Scott, stop trolling. Lots of nofap threads on reddit.

No one is denying that hormones can & do have often powerful effects on human behavior. Most posters here know full well the secondhand effects of testosterone - & we've experienced in 3-D up close & personal living color the effects of estrogen, progesterone, FSH, cortisol, TSH, oxytocin, prolactin, insulin...

What we reject is the idea that by taking opposite-sex hormones, a male can become a female, & a female can become a male.

More pertinent to this thread, we also deny that conformity to sex-role stereotypes and behaviors is determined (& forever fixed) by pre-natal or early post-natal hormones. We think "gendered behavior" on the part of children is primarily caused by how those children have been perceived and socialized by others around them.

The actual scientific research referenced in the paper you linked to in your initial post supports a/the GC & feminist position, not yours.

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