Ffs lib dems

OrangeSnake

Those who have an issue with an email like this, which regardless on your views on specific policies like self ID, is about supporting trans people and the trans community, probably don't belong in the party.

In other words, fuck off, cunty women with your silly concerns.

Orange Snake

Needmoresleep The libdems have lots and lots of detailed policy on most issues, we have two conferences a year and pass motions and long policy papers on a range of issues.

We have passed countless motions in support of trans rights, including self-ID and other stuff. To quote just one of the parts of the last manifesto that dealt with trans rights (other parts include having X option on passports, removing the spousal veto ext.)

Extend protection of gender reassignment in equality law to explicitly cover gender identity and expression, and streamline and simplify the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to allow individuals to change their legal gender without unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles, for example the intrusive medical tests currently required.

There fundamentally is no conflict between trans rights and other peoples rights.

orangesnake
could you define 'anti-trans' please?
Does it include for example:

1. Not wanting a male rapist with a fully functioning penis being put into a woman's prison?
2. Not wanting biological males to compete in what have, until now, been sex-segregated sports?

because, yes, I would be guilty of both of those.

No one is opposing trans rights. Just don't take away women's rights or dismantle safeguarding.
Its not difficult.

Orange snake, there is a lot of devil in the detail. Saying ‘we support transrights’ is not enough. What do you mean by trans? What rights don’t trans people have. Do rights for trans people automatically trump other people’s rights when there is a conflict, and why?

If the LibDems are claiming to be a grown up political party with aspirations to form, or help form, a Government, they need to do better than merely repeat slogans. They need to listen and consider and eventually be able to justify their policies.

Or perhaps they don’t have such aspirations so are content with woke student politics. Good to know that Lily Madigan has a home when Labour tire of her.

Well AssassinatedBeauty, I don't really recognise the "concerns" of women who oppose trans equality/rights as being legitimate, in the same way that I and the party refuse to recognise the "legitimate concerns" of racists who have an issue with immigration.

People are free to disagree with the party line and party policy, I do on plenty of issues, but there are core values that the party stands by which equality and fighting for the rights of individuals is a main part of, and so I would argue that being anti-trans rights is fundamentally incompatible with being a Lib Dem.

That's great @OrangeSnake - you don't want to address or acknowledge any of the concerns or points made by women who don't toe the party line. Just a flat #nodebate and you're not welcome in our party anyway.

As a libdem member, I am sure that there will be no value lost from the few people who have an issue with that email. The party has continually supported trans rights, and has had pro-trans rights policies for almost its entire history. Those who have an issue with an email like this, which regardless on your views on specific policies like self ID, is about supporting trans people and the trans community, probably don't belong in the party.

It’s an unusual email - I can’t remember receiving anything like that before. We get a lot of stuff about helping in elections, donating money and internal party stuff, but - apart from Brexit campaigns - I can’t think of another email asking me to do something specific for an individual non-party campaign. This seems to be very much Sal’s personal initiative.

Interestingly, not many people seem to be heeding the call. I’ve got a lot of Lib Dems on my Twitter and Facebook feeds, and I’ve only seen one person referring to #transawarenessweek. Had a quick look at all the MPs and only Vince has done a video- nobody else has even mentioned it.

Thanks, ecosomething Your sterling efforts are part of what has inspired us.

weekfour I was blocked as soon as I queried the red carpet being rolled out for Aimee Challenor. The LGBT Libdem Twitter account is only looking for affirmation. I gather Sarah Brown has a lot to do with running it.

The whole thing is deeply depressing, but I'm not ready to give up quite yet.

Lib Dem and Green secret societies. Does anyone know of a Labour Party one? My membership of LP is hanging on by a thread, and I will go elsewhere if I can find a party that has a sizeable GC group.

Because the foundation of trans existence is purely ephemeral - that is why it is so shaky - and can fracture in an instant. Hence all of the talk of the 'right to exist'. It's a mental construct only.

I got it too.

I got it to. I clicked the ‘no’ button for ‘did I find it useful’ and told them that their statistics were flawed and manipulated, that trans people already have equal rights, and that I do not agree with the vocal trans advocates who are pushing for trans women in women’s roles and spaces. I could probably have worded it better, but it was done in a WTF moment while i was on a call for work.

That's what I'm very curious about too...

Well I suppose I am making an assumption, it's gone to the lib dem members I know. Can't imagine why they would tailor it to particular members.

Really only I hear a few members seem to have lost theirs in the interspace.

Most odd.

I always really looked up to Sal. She's an intelligent and sensible woman. I was disappointed by the tone of this and stats being thrown about.
Will be interested to see what replies people get. I was very much brushed off when I raised concerns about that awful Twitter account.

Yes.

Have they really sent that email to all members?

They've lost me over it. I told them my reasons and they didn't even respond to me. I did however, manage to be blocked by the LGBT Libdem Twitter feed.... For asking a bloody question.

I was so frustrated I cried. I was such a vocal supporter amongst my friends/colleagues. I just feel silly!

They're more than happy to throw every woman under the bus to keep a few vocal trans people happy. I'm now politically homeless.

“It is 2018 and we should be better than this.”

Speak for yourself Sal. My conscience is clear.

I got it too. Dealing very in despair with the party right now, but I don't know where else to go politically.

By putting "Gender-critical LibDem" on my Twitter profile I've recently linked up with a LibDem councillor and through him am now part of a newly-formed (at present secret) group of gender-critical LibDems on FB. We're intending to start a closed group for debate on this, but it's all very recent and still in the planning stage. I think there are quite a lot of party members not happy at the leadership's approach, but feeling isolated at present

From those of us doing similar work in the Greens can we genuinely wish you all the best welshbookworm!

Can her ladyship provide the source of those statistics?

Does she have accurate figures on the number of people who identify as trans?

You can't say "a third" have experienced hate crime, without knowing the total number of trans people. You can, however, say "a third" of the respondents to a survey - and provide the source.

We have seen too many Stonewall/LBGT surveys that have been misleading and false. They aren't worth the paper they are written on, but are oft-quoted as though they are authoratitive.

I would definitely ask the Baroness to back up her claims.